On Advocating for Black Mothers - HIMSS Europe Series with Carolina Coimbra

In the rights of pregnancy for women, we had a new law that was approved where we have the definition of obstetric violence and is the first in Europe. My name is Carolina. I'm part of an organization called SaMaNe Health of Black Mothers.

Hello dear listeners. Welcome to a new episode of our HIMSS Europe special series on Narratives of Purpose.This week I bring you interviews with three speakers of the HIMSS Women's Health in Focus track from the session titled "Intersectional Innovation: Addressing Health Disparities".These interviews were recorded in Paris back in June at the HIMSS, the Healthcare Information and Management Center Systems Society European annual flagship event, also considered as Europe's number one digital health conference. For those of you listening to Narratives of Purpose for the first time, my name is Claire Murigande. I am your host on this podcast which is all about amplifying social impact by showcasing unique stories of global change makers who are contributing to make a difference in society. My guest today is Carolina Coimbra. Carolina is a doula and activist for pregnancy and childbirth rights. She worked as an advisor in the Portuguese Parliament. Carolina is also the co founder of the SaMaNe association, an association tackling structural racism in maternal and reproductive health in Portugal.Carolina tells me about SaMaNe's activities and the data the association's recent report collected on pregnancy, childbirth and postpartum experiences of Black and Afro descendant women in Portugal.Remember to rate and to review our show wherever you listen to your podcasts or simply share your thoughts and feedback on the 90s of purpose website using this short link bit.ly/narrativesofpurpose, then select the review page. For now, get comfortable and let's jump in the conversation with Carolina.

My name is Carolina. I'm part of an organization called SaMaNe in English is Health of Black Mothers.

Can you tell me a little bit about the association SaMaNe, how you started it and what is exactly that you're doing with it?

So we start in 2020 after my murder of George Floyd. I'm a doula.So at that time I was working in something about racism and my work and I saw that the mortality rates of Black mothers in UK, Brazil and United States are higher comparing with white mothers. So I was wondering, I was in Portugal because we don't have ethnicity data, so we don't have that.So we start to do a survey about the experience of Black mothers in Portugal. It was then when our work starts.

And how has that since 2020, so it's almost five years now, how did you evolve with this association?

So we start with the survey and with small meetings with Black mothers to understand how was the experience, what they think about it. And we start to show some movies from Brazil, because it's the country that we have more data, more information about it. So we start to, to show the documentary about the obstetric violence. And after the women, they start to talk about the experience and saying that they live the same.We were working in activism too, and we contact the politics too. So it was a lot of parts, because we think that with everything we can change a little bit.

So it's all connected. You started with the mothers and then you see the healthcare system, and now you want to bring it more into society, right?

Yes, yes.

When we were preparing the panel for tomorrow, you were talking about this report that you did, and I think it was published in. Wait, let me check my notes. In 2023. So the pregnancy, childbirth and postpartum experiences of Black and Afro descendant women in Portugal. So what was the goal of this report? Now that you have released one part of it, what are you doing with this report in terms of activities of your association?

When we start, everyone asks for data. So we don't have. Because we don't have data. And so we start with that, with this report, we have a small information.We know that it is not a lot, but it is a small part to begin the work and to show everyone that wants to know data about it. Sometimes we are doing presentations to the academic students and the academic researchers and to the hospitals.

And what was the reaction when you present this to universities or to hospitals, for example, what do people think about this data?

Because we don't have nothing about Black community. And they say that is very interesting because we need to start somewhere.So we have other academic researchers that they try to do the same, but in a general way, but trying to interview Black women too. And with this indication, because in Portugal we cannot ask directly which is the ethnical group of the person. And the excuse that they, they give is because everyone is equal. Our survey, the. The question was how you identify and people could answer or not. But we think that is very important to, to have this, this information, to have more social politics influence. Yes.

And to that point, I was also reading in your bio and it says that you work as an advisor in the Portuguese Parliament. So what is it exactly that you do? And how has this report helped you maybe influence your work there?

Because I am an activist in Portugal and usually when I go to the march, people from parties, a few parties, they go too. So someone gave my name when they were searching for someone, because I work in these health issues and I was in the Commission of Health. It was because of this part of my work.

And were you able to influence some of those discussions about policies?

A few ones, but we had the new elections, so I'm not anymore.The party lost a lot of deputies, but in the rights of pregnancy for women, we had a new law that was approved where we have the definition of obstetric violence. And this, I think is the first in Europe.

That's amazing.

Yeah, very good to be part of that. They approved and now they have to regulate. So we will see now the part of this. We have to make sure that they don't change again.

If we come back now to this congress, to HIMSS now in Paris, what is going to be your message or what do you want people to take away from the conversation that we'll have in the panel tomorrow?

This question is very interesting because I was in the panel of a storytelling about how to make sure that the message will get to the public that you want. And I was thinking about it.So I think that it's very important that people have the conscience of the diversity of all the people and the conscience that not everyone have the same chances and are treated in the same way. And it's a lot, no? But the main is that everyone is human, so you should treat them as human with the empathy and everything.

And are you going to attend some other sessions during this congress? And do you have some special expectations or something you're looking forward to?

Because I'm from sociology.

Okay.

I like the panels about the communication about the relation between the doctors and patients. So everything around this.

Maybe another question out of curiosity. I don't know how the system is in Portugal.I was speaking before with someone from a patient organizatio in Diabetes, and we had the person just before you, he's also a strong advocate in mental health.Do you have something similar maybe in Portugal for pregnancy or women, where there's a group or an association, and it's maybe a place for patients to go, or young mothers or future mothers. And do they also have like an influence somehow, as a patient voice, so to speak?

Not really, no.

Do you think it's needed?

Yes, we have a few organizations that work, advocate about the rights and try to do the bridge between the relationship from women and doctors, but we don't have organization that is really the voice of patients. But we should.

Well, thank you very much. Thank you for taking the time and I look forward to tomorrow thank you.

Me too.

Before ending this episode, let me give you an overview of what the obstetric violence legal definition covers. As Carolina mentioned, Portugal is the first European country to enact a national law defining obstetric violence.It is legally defined as the physical and verbal actions by healthcare professionals on the body and and reproductive procedures of women or other pregnant individuals expressed through: 1. Dehumanizing treatment. This encompasses both direct abuse and neglect from healthcare providers. 2. Abuse of medicalization. This means over-reliance on medical procedures or unnecessary interventions without proper justification. 3. The pathologization of natural processes. This means treating normal physiological events during pregnancy as if they were medical illnesses.All these actions are recognized as violating women's rights during pregnancy, childbirth and the postpartum period. You can read all about the legal framework and the impact of this law on the respectfulcare.eu website. The link is in the Show Notes.If you wish to follow Carolina Coimbra's activities, be sure to connect with her on Instagram or or LinkedIn.You can also visit her website aminhadoulacarolina.pt and find more information on her association SaMaNe spelled S A M A N E also on their website associacaosamane.org As always, you will find all the links in the episode Show Notes. Thank you so much for tuning in today. I appreciate you taking the time.Join me again in a couple of days for the third episode featuring another speaker of the Women's Health Track session titled "Intersectional Addressing: Health Disparities".I will speak to Steven Gilbert, an anti racism leader and coach who supports work to better understand the social determinants of racial mental health inequalities. Until then, take care of yourselves. Stay well and stay inspired.