On Bridging Theory and Practice in Health AI - HIMSS Europe Series with Amanda Leal

I'm motivated by this quest of like, how can we. So it's a positive agenda for AI governance. How can we steer it for a more responsible AI development and deployment?I see that it all comes down to accountability and it's something that you can really translate to different contexts. I'm Amanda Leal. I work as AI Governance and Policy Specialist at HealthAI, focusing on responsible AI in health.

Hello dear listeners, welcome to a new episode of our HIMSS Europe Special series on Narratives of Purpose.This is the final week of our series and I am bringing you interviews with three speakers of the hymns Women's Health in Focus track from the session titled "It Starts with Data: Closing the Gap".These interviews were recorded in Paris back in June at the HIMSS, the Healthcare Information and Management Systems Society European annual flagship event, also considered as Europe's number one digital health conference. For those of you listening to Narratives of Purpose for the first time, my name is Claire Murigande. I am your host on this podcast which is all about amplifying social impact by showcasing unique stories of global change makers who are contributing to make a difference in society. My guest today is Amanda Leal. Amanda serves as AI Governance and Policy Specialist at HealthAI, the global agency for responsible AI in Health. HealthAI is an independent non profit organization that promotes equitable access to AI powered health innovations.Amanda talks about her work in bridging AI governance theory and practice and the important role her Brazilian heritage plays in her professional life.Remember to rate and review our show wherever you listen to your podcasts or simply share your thoughts and feedback on the Narratives of Purpose website using the short link bit.ly/narrativesofpurpose. Then select the review page. For now, get comfortable and let's jump into the conversation with Amanda.

I'm Amanda Leal. I work as AI Governance and Policy Specialist at HealthAI, which is an NGO based in Geneva focusing on responsible AI and health.I originally come from Brazil and that's something I like to mention because I really believe that is the Brazilian culture is in my core. That translates into my professional life as well. Just to give you more context, in Brazil we really believe in the power of community.We really believe in civil society's role as being, you know, important at the heart of policies and governance. We fight for social justice and in the global landscape we're recognized for being good diplomats. So we believe in peace and diplomacy.

Really?

Yeah, it's a thing. We were there from the beginning, from the creation of the United Nations. Yes, multilateralism is really important for us.

Tell me about the organization HealthAI, what is the mission and what issue are you solving or anticipating?Because I suppose it's all about regulations and policy and tech is advancing so quickly and sometimes you feel like all the regulation and policy are just lagging behind. So what is HealthAI about?

Yeah, so HealthAI is an organization based in Geneva. We focus on advancing responsible AI in health through governance, as you said, regulation, regulatory structures and international coordination. We do this by acting as partners to national governments. We work together to assess their health and technology regulatory frameworks and their institutional structures.We know that with AI, for example, it's not something that is AI's impact in health.You would guess that this is addressed by the Ministry of Health in a country, but actually, because AI is like across the board, it's also the remid of other ministries in a government. There's an AI strategy, there's a digital health strategy. So how do you converge this? How do you coordinate between institutions?Then we look at all this, structure, the dynamics within a country, and we propose adaptations and provide training to the public servants, to the policymakers. We provide tools that are aligned with international standards and trends. But looking at the local context, because this is really important, right?So we believe that we need to adapt to the realities on the ground, to the local contexts.So in that way, HealthAI functions as a bridge, I like to say, between the international organizations, the trends, and the national governments that choose to be our partners. So this is part of the work that we do.And beyond this work, we, with governments and international coordination, we have a thriving community of practice where we walk the talk when it comes to building inclusive and participatory AI governance. So we bring together actors from different sectors, from different countries. It's really a global community.And we discuss the most pressing challenges for AI governance. We brainstorm solutions for them.And so it's also a space to share best practices and learn from different jurisdictions because we believe that with this exchange, we can help elevate the community. We learn from solutions that are being applied in different contexts.

And how did you personally come to be involved with healthcare through the organization?

Yeah. So I have a track record working in AI governance, before that in tech policy more generally. I have a background in law from Brazil, so I come from this work in law and tech. And then I moved more into a policy career.I ended up working at HealthAI to be the AI governance and policy specialist, to kind of bring the learnings from the discussions, the policy discussions, international coordination in AI governance, to this health context and also learn from the health context.So it's really a merge of two worlds coming together and I try to build on the things that I learned, but also bring more knowledge from the health community.Health is a really interesting sector, but, you know, the way I got to it is because I got to know the work of health AI and I've been working in AI governance and I realized what better way to tackle AI governance challenges than in health? Because health is the most consequential domain for society, for AI governance.And I believe that if we tackle AI governance challenges in health, we can then transfer this knowledge to other sectors. Right, because it's a sector that's already heavily regulated, that have gone through a lot in terms of seeking more safety, responsible development.And it's also on the positive side of it, it's where AI can have tremendous contributions in terms of scaling solutions, facilitating knowledge exchange, diagnostics across the board in health.

And coming back now to the HIMSS Congress, do you have any expectations or what are you looking forward to?Because the way you described HealthAI for me, it sounds also like you talked about community of practice, and yesterday we were speaking with the CEO and president of HIMSSs, and it seems like the way the organization was structured, the HIMSS, it's also community based and it's global and they're learning from each other. And HealthAI seems to be quite similar. So what are you expecting from this event here in Paris?

Yeah, so this is amazing because HIMSS is also a good example of how to bring community together. Also with this international aspect. There are other communities of practice out there that are so important.So I think coming to an event like this, my expectation is really exchange with other people from different contexts that are on the same journey. So a lot to learn. I'm also very excited about the women's health track.

Exactly.I was just gonna ask you, you know, you'll be on stage on the panel, what would be, like, your main message for the audience and for the participants who'll be listening to you?

Yeah, so I, I say I want to bring some of my knowledge from, from my work in AI governance. And I'm so curious to hear everything that the other panelists have to say and try to, you know, connect the dots and build bridges here.But I'm motivated by this quest of, like, how can we. So it's a positive agenda for AI governance. How can we steer it for better, for a more responsible AI development and deployment?And the more I think about it, the more I learn about the health sector and other sectors, I've worked in. I see that it all comes down to accountability, and it's something that you can really translate to different contexts.So I want to also learn from other speakers and share my perspectives on strategies that we can apply to increase accountability.

There's something I wanted to ask you about. I was reading your bio. I saw that you were named among the 100 Brilliant Women in AI Ethics in 2024.First of all, what does that mean and how has that influenced your career so far?

Oh, thanks, that's really nice. I'm really excited to be in the women's health track also because I do have a background in gender studies.I've done research on how to, for example, bridge the gender gap in the AI industry in general. And one thing that I learned in terms of strategies is the importance of highlighting women's achievements and highlighting women actors in the field. And so the fact that I was nominated for this one was really wholesome.I'm really grateful because I think highlighting our achievements, it's important. That also allowed me imagine 100 women. That allowed me to connect with amazing women working in this field as well.And I'm pretty sure that must have had an impact in my career in terms of opportunities we get, because we know that we build on reputation. This is important too, for our industry.

Perhaps just for our listeners. Can you give us a sense of how wide or how important this gap is? You just mentioned that there's a gap in AI as well.I mean, we know there's a gap in healthcare, and this is something I've been addressing a lot as well on the podcast through other conversations. The main issue is also funding startups or companies that are created by women, you know, just to address this issue. How is this gap in AI space when you talk about gender gap?

So back in 2021, when I did this research, there was a huge gap in different aspects of the AI industry, right? Starting with research. So in terms of undergrads and grad students in the domains of computer science, the gap was huge. I think it was in many countries about max 30% of women in that area of research.Then you have the problem in the industry of the women that go into this industry, and you look at the leadership positions, there's also a gap, obviously, but that reflects early on, from the start of their careers. And then when it comes to startups, there was also data on how most VC funding would go to startups led by men.So it's really something that we need to. We need a robust strategy to tackle these different elements that reproduce gender inequality.But then when it comes to AI development, the technology itself, it all comes down to data.Data is at the crux of AI development, and we also know that there's a huge gap in terms of the data available to train AI data sets not being representative of diverse populations and gender dimensions as well.There are advancements too, and I think this chance that we have here at HIMSS to talk about it, it's another moment where we can coordinate and there's always initiatives that come out of these moments of connection.

Thank you so much for being with us.

Thank you.

If you wish to learn more about the HealthAI agency, have a look at their website at at www.healthai.agency. You can also follow Amanda Leal's activities by connecting with her on LinkedIn. All the links are available in the episode Show Notes.Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in today. This was the final episode of our HIMSS Europe series. If you enjoyed this interview and the other conversations, please share in your network. You can find all the Narratives of Purpose HIMSS episodes on a dedicated playlist at bit.ly/himsseu that's H I M S S E U or simply click the corresponding link in the Show Notes. Special thanks to Megan McCrory for recording the interviews in Paris and to Shawn Smith for supporting the series on the production side.Be sure to Follow us on LinkedIn: Narratives of Purpose podcast or subscribe to our newsletter directly on our website and using the short link bit.ly/narrativesofpurpose. Until the next episode. Take care of yourselves. Stay well and as always, stay inspired.