Decluttering Motherhood: The Marie Kondo Approach to Parenting | Jenna Michael

Manouchka: Ever feel like modern motherhood is just too much? Too much stuff, too many commitments, too much pressure to do it all?

Today’s guest knows exactly how that feels, and she’s built her business around helping moms simplify their lives and focus on what truly matters.

Jenna Michael is a mom of four, a creator, and the author of Let’s Choose Less, where she shares her journey toward essentialism, minimalism, and conscious parenting.

What started as a personal mission to declutter her life, both physically and mentally, has turned into coaching where she helps moms navigate the chaos with practical, no-BS advice.

She’s done the deep dive into parenting, minimalism, and intentional living, so you don’t have to. And today, she’s here to share how we can stop drowning in overwhelm and start embracing a simpler, more fulfilling motherhood.

Hey Boss Mama, welcome to the show, empowering mompreneurs to thrive in business and motherhood. Let’s get started.

Manouchka: Hi Jenna, thank you for joining me on the Hey Boss Mama podcast. I’m so happy to have you here and to learn about all the things that you’re doing, because I understand that you’re quite a busy mom with four kids that you’re homeschooling, and you’re starting your own business. Tell us all about it. What’s keeping you awake at night?

Jenna Michael: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I’m so glad to be able to have this conversation today.

Yes, I am Jenna. I am a homeschool mom of four, and I am currently building up my own parenting coaching business. I wrote a book on simplifying parenting, and I’m waiting to hear back from publishers currently.

In the meantime, I’ve started this parenting coaching business where I want to continue the conversation that I started within the pages of my book, talking about what we can do to make motherhood a little easier, because we all know it’s complicated enough these days.

So I’m trying to simplify it and take out a lot of the excess clutter when we’re talking about our houses and our calendars.

Manouchka: So you’re basically doing the... what’s the name of that lady who simplifies houses and stuff?

Jenna Michael: Oh, Marie Kondo.

Manouchka: You’re Marie Kondo-ing motherhood.

Jenna Michael: Yes, basically, in a nutshell, yes. I love that.

So I’m taking away a lot of the things that we don’t need, that we feel pressure to do as parents, and just going back down to the essentials. What do we actually need in order to be a good parent? Or what do we actually need to have on our baby registry?

So it’s very much about making things a lot simpler than what we’re told in the world today.

Manouchka: All right, so it sounds like you’re going from mindset to actual physical things.

Jenna Michael: Yes, that’s a really good way to put it.

It all started for us in our own parenting journey. When I was pregnant with our first, I read all the books, listened to all the podcasts, and I was so ready for this baby to come. Then we had this baby, and I was not ready at all. I mean, no one truly is ready. Then all of a sudden you have your baby and you’re just like, my world has completely changed.

As we continued to have kids, I realized that my diaper bag was getting smaller, the things that we needed in our closets were less and less, and there was just less that we needed. But it’s so hard in a world where you feel obligated to hold onto these things, where you feel obligated to check the boxes on the list that you’re provided.

The whole beginning of this actually started during Covid when we were locked down and I had just had our third baby. I started an Instagram account just trying to connect with other moms and say, “Hey, this is weird. Life right now is just wild.”

From there it branched into a blog where I continued the conversation, and then I actually started a freelance writing career where I was talking about this and offering parenting advice to local parents in our area.

Then I thought, these are all really good ideas. I want to keep some of these and put them into long form. So I wrote an outline, and then a book just kind of happened after that as well.

And now here we are wanting to continue the conversation through face-to-face coaching. So it’s been a really cool evolution, how it’s all happened.

Manouchka: Beautiful. I love how it was really organic. You went from doing something for the fun of it and then it turned into a business idea.

Jenna Michael: Yeah, it was really organic. What I’ve learned along this process is that people want to have this conversation. Moms of our generation are hungry for talking about this, but there’s not always a really good, safe place to be able to have that conversation.

We live in the world of information, and a lot of times that can be a blessing and a curse because we can have so much information at the click of a button, but not all of it is information that we need or should be absorbing.

Manouchka: Yeah, I feel exactly the same. Personally, when I was pregnant, I was very selective about the information that I wanted to consume because it didn’t necessarily go with my view of what it is to become a mom and to go through the whole pregnancy process.

Later on, when I did that shift into being an entrepreneur, but being a mom and an entrepreneur, I didn’t see a lot that I resonated with. That’s also why I decided to start a podcast because I was like, I don’t feel like there’s enough of what I want, so basically I’m going to make it.

Jenna Michael: Yeah, but isn’t that brilliant? Then you find like-minded people who also want to have the conversations that you’re having. So I’m here for it. That’s awesome.

Manouchka: So your business is still in the starting blocks, but you’re homeschooling at the same time. How does that work? How do you make the time, and how aren’t you burnt out? Because you seem really healthy and dynamic.

Jenna Michael: You’re very sweet. Thank you.

I think part of it is having really strict boundaries. There are certain days that I do not allow myself to do any work. There are days when I have built-in help, whether it’s a babysitter or I’ve scheduled time. Right now, actually, my sister is here hanging out with my kids so that I can work. So being able to ask people for help.

But I think the other thing is that my primary job and focus currently is being a mom, and all of the really fun entrepreneurial stuff that I’m doing happens in the cracks, in the windows in between motherhood.

In some ways, I think that offers authenticity in what it is that I do, because my full-time job is being a parent, and then my other job is helping other parents. So it helps to understand where my priorities and my boundaries lie.

It’s very helpful to have help, which I know not everybody has the budget or the ability to build in. Then the other thing that I do is I work when my kids are busy. If my kids are going to have screen time for an hour, I’m going to be like, cool, me too. I’ll have screen time. Or if they’re going to bed early because they’re really tired, I’ll work in that early evening timeframe when they’re in bed, or I get up early and I work before they’re awake.

So I build in some windows throughout our days, but it’s definitely not all rosy and rainbows and lollipops. It definitely is a challenge at times, for sure.

Manouchka: Yeah, I feel the same way. I’m also looking for pockets of time. That’s the way I like to call it because you really get a little bit of time here, a little bit of time there, but you also have to make it possible for that time to be useful for your business, or even just self-care or whatever.

Because there’s so little of it. It’s also by choice. I know I’m in the same situation as you, where I’ve been able to ask for help, so I have my mom most of the time who helps me during the week, but it also means I have to do things in a certain way to make that happen.

It was a conscious decision. During that first year, my son is actually turning one tomorrow, I haven’t felt comfortable leaving him with strangers. The only people who have cared for him are me, my partner, and my mom basically, and maybe also his aunts.

It’s not easy to do. It’s been on my to-do list because I need more time to really develop my business. I also need to hire external help, but I’m like, I don’t want to.

Jenna Michael: I know. It’s so hard. It’s so hard, and it’s so expensive. It’s so costly.

Then you’re sitting there when you’re working and you’re doing that mom money math where you’re going, okay, I’m paying my babysitter this amount, and I know I’m going to make this much during this hour, so am I losing money? Am I making money? Is it worth it? Do I really want to do this? Oh my gosh, I’m having a crisis of conscience.

Then all of a sudden your whole time has been taken up by just having this mental whirlwind.

If it helps you feel better, it took me a long time as well to hire babysitters. But one of the things that I found for me was that if I could identify people who had similar value systems to me and to my husband, then that made it easier. Once I could find them, I would latch onto them.

We treat our babysitters very well. We treat them like family. They’re very involved in our lives. Because of that, I feel very comfortable when I do have them around our kids, because I know that they are invested in our family, just like we’re invested in them.

Manouchka: How old is your oldest kid?

Jenna Michael: She is almost eight. She’s seven and a half, and she never wants you to forget the half at this point.

My youngest is two, and he’s almost three. So I had four babies in the span of five years.

Manouchka: Yeah. That’s a lot of diapers.

Jenna Michael: Oh my gosh, there are so many diapers, and we’re so close. We’re so close to the end.

By the time my youngest is potty trained, my oldest will have become eight, and I will have consistently had a child in diapers for eight full years. So we’re almost there. We’re so close, but diapers, man. I’ll be glad to say goodbye to those.

Manouchka: Tell us a bit more about how you’re planning out your business because from what you’ve told me before, you’re being very cautious with the way that you’re setting things up, right? So tell me how you’re looking at it in terms of planning and preparation, and what’s keeping you from jumping the gun and saying, yes, I’m an entrepreneur, I’m a business owner.

Jenna Michael: Yeah, I mean, one, I would say I think imposter syndrome is a huge issue for me. I really struggle with this because I’m so good at questioning myself and the validity of myself.

Who am I? I’m just Jenna. How am I supposed to be able to offer something to other parents? What is it that I have that other parents would want to know?

I constantly have to tell myself, no, you know what, even if it’s just having a conversation with someone and being able to productively come to the same agreement of some kind, that’s still beneficial.

Right now I am starting with coaching, so one-on-one conversations with moms, very similar to this, where we just talk about what’s most important to you and your family, and how does that translate over to the physical items that are in your house and also your calendar.

A question that I really like to ask is: if I looked at your calendar and your bank account, or if I looked in your closet, would I be able to know what’s most important to you?

Manouchka: Oh wow. That’s an interesting question.

Jenna Michael: Right?

Manouchka: I need to think about it.

Jenna Michael: You do.

The reason this all started was because somebody who I really admire asked us that question, and I was like, nope, you wouldn’t be able to tell at all.

So slowly but surely, we have made adjustments in our life in order to be able to do that, and to be able to say, if somebody looked in my closet right now, they’d know that I love to work out. They would be able to identify that. Or if they looked at my garage, they’d be able to see that our kids like to ride bikes, but we’re not golfers and we don’t have a kayak and we don’t have a canoe or whatever else it is in our garage.

So our home and our family are very set up to fit into our value system, and that’s what I’m hoping to help accomplish as well.

So, one-on-one coaching, and then I’ve written a book. Then the other thing is, big dreams, long term, real far down the road, it would be super cool to be able to have a podcast with my husband where we could have some of these discussions and help other families be able to walk through our processes.

We have a Sunday strategy meeting every week between the two of us. It’s really fun. So being able to help other families do those things as well.

So I’m starting very small right now with coaching and the newsletter, really trying to build my confidence up and also help other families in the process.

Manouchka: I feel like you need to apply your process to your confidence.

Jenna Michael: Oh, that’s good. Yes, you’re right. I do.

Manouchka: You’re able to help parents become more confident in their parenting, right?

Jenna Michael: Yes.

Manouchka: Because once you know what you’re doing and that you’re able to communicate that properly within the couple, to the whole family, and that you feel like you’re in sync between what you believe in, your values, and who you are, then it works because you’re authentic with yourself in a way.

Jenna Michael: Oh, that’s my word of the year. Authenticity. That’s my word of the year. I love that.

Yes, I need to go back and definitely ruminate on that a little bit. Thank you.

Manouchka: I’m also wondering, because your kids are homeschooled, they must see you working quite a lot. Do you talk with them about what it is that you’re trying to achieve?

Jenna Michael: Yes.

Currently my older two are elementary school age. My younger two are in preschool, and I do send my younger two to preschool primarily because it offers the older two the opportunity to do things like go on fun adventures without their younger siblings, or to really deep dive into something academically.

That also provides really good one-on-one time with them.

We talk about it all the time, you know, “Mom works with other parents to help them be more confident parents, to be able to learn things that mommy and daddy have learned.”

To be honest, our kids don’t ask a ton about my business and what it is that we do, but they have the idea of doing their own businesses. So it’s funny how kids are sponges and they just automatically flip those ideas and do them themselves.

My daughters really wanted to have a lemonade stand, or they had a bookmark-making business for a little bit, and they were trying to do their own things. I feel very excited when they come up with these ideas.

During the bookmark phase, I bought a laminator, bookmark cardstock, and tassels, and they were making bookmarks and I was laminating them and taking them to bookstores and leaving them at the library or giving them as gifts.

So it was a really cool way for them to have an idea and for me to be able to help them see it through. It wasn’t a very lucrative business, but that’s not the point.

Manouchka: Don’t tell them about that part. The financial stuff will come a little later.

Jenna Michael: Exactly.

Manouchka: On the part about kids being sponges, that’s something that’s really on my mind right now because I took a while off the business and erased social media from my phone. I barely was going on Facebook, even on my computer. To be honest, I really enjoyed it. It felt really refreshing and I didn’t miss it at all.

I lost that reflex of constantly checking my phone too, which was amazing.

Now that I’m back on all the platforms because I want to share about Hey Boss Mama, about the community that I’m also trying to build with the Facebook group and all that, I’m always on my phone. I see my son looking at me, or sometimes I feel like I’m maybe not as present as I should be.

At the same time, I’m like, I have to stop doing that because I’m feeling guilty. I know I’m not setting a good example and that’s not what I want to do. At the same time, I’m torn. Like, oh, but I just need to do that other little thing.

That sponge thing is crazy, scary. I’m also exercising with him every morning, so that’s actually good, like the good part of the sponge. I’m reading books with him, and he sees me reading books a lot. We’re cooking real food, all of that.

But then how do I balance that? Do you have some parenting advice for me? How do I handle this?

Jenna Michael: Oh, that’s a really hard one because I feel like in our world right now, we’re so polarized with topics, right? You’re either really, really into something or it’s really, really bad, and you can’t always find people in the middle.

One of the things that was told to me recently, because I was talking to a fellow homeschool mom and I was saying I felt so guilty. My kids watched TV today while I worked. She said, if it benefits the family, then it’s not a bad thing.

That had me thinking about it in some ways because, one, we can’t always demonize screens. Screens are just an integrated part of our life now, even if we don’t want them to be. And too much of anything is a bad thing, right? Moderation is always the way to go.

But when it comes to screens, it’s important for us to be able to teach our kids a healthy balance with it, and not just never be on them, ever, or be on them too much.

One of the things that we do is we try really hard to have screen-free time with our kids. If we’re playing outside, or if we’re playing a game, or if we’re reading a book, or whatever it is, phones can and should be put away.

But there’s also a time for them.

For us with our kids, one of the things that I’m trying to teach them is that when we watch screens, I’ll give them a timeframe. “Mom’s going to record a podcast this morning. You guys can watch some TV while I do that. Then when I’m all done, we’re all going to be all done. Mom’s going to put work away and we’re going to go outside.”

One of the things that I try to do is, kind of like I batch my work, I try to have my screen time where I’m like, okay, this is my social media time, or this is my time where I’m going to text all the people back. Then I’m going to put my phone away.

More often than not, one of the things that we do immediately after watching TV is go outside and just try to re-ground, regulate, and get a little bit of distance between the screens.

It’s easier for my older kids than it is for my younger kids. I think the more you practice it, the easier it gets.

Something else that I do for myself is I actually leave my phone on a version of Do Not Disturb almost all day. It starts at like 9 a.m. and it ends at 5 p.m. Then again at 8 p.m., my nighttime Do Not Disturb comes on. So there’s really only a small window where it’s a free-for-all with my phone.

More often than not, it’s those really, really busy times of the day, right? You’re trying to get everybody fed and dressed and out the door in the morning. You really don’t have time to scroll through.

Manouchka: I like that you said it’s also about creating some balance. It’s not all black or white.

It’s true that it’s not a good idea to just ignore it, because we’re not teaching the boundaries to our kids if we do that. Maybe him seeing that I have to be stricter with myself when it comes to the phone and deciding what my boundaries are with it, that will be beneficial.

Jenna Michael: Yeah.

I did hear one time, and it was really interesting, because kids can’t see what we’re doing on our phones, sometimes it’s helpful to outsource to other devices to be able to delineate what it is that you’re doing.

I used to read books on my phone a lot, and I realized my kids couldn’t tell what I was doing on my phone. They just saw me looking at my phone. So I only ever read on my Kindle or a physical book, obviously that’s preferred.

A lot of my social media I do on my computer now versus on my phone if I can. That helps too, because then they see my computer out. They most often associate that with work, versus just ignoring them on my phone.

So being able to kind of separate out what it is that you’re doing as well, and not just use your phone for everything, that helps.

Manouchka: That’s a good idea.

You mentioned batching your work. How do you organize that? What’s your process?

Jenna Michael: Oh, this is a tricky one, right?

I schedule in the time that I am working or I’m not working, and I’ll make myself a list. I’m like, hey, I’ve got two hours and I need to get these things done. These are my to-dos with work, and I’m going to crank through as much as I can. If I don’t get it done, then it just needs to transfer over.

Something for me that I have to remind myself constantly, which is a really hard thing to do, is I have to remember that adults can wait, and kids sometimes can’t.

Which I know not everybody has that lifestyle and that ability.

Manouchka: I like also the fact that you said the emails and stuff can wait. It’s true that too often we’re like, oh, but if it’s less than five minutes, might as well just do it now so it’s done.

But if you’re switching back and forth between types of tasks, you’re wasting a lot of time because it takes you a moment to get into that mindset or that goal-oriented phase to do social media or the emails or whatever. But if you’re going from one to another constantly, you’re losing a lot of time.

Jenna Michael: Yeah. Toggling back and forth.

I also read that that’s where a lot of frustration comes from with parents who are also trying to do other things. I heard one time, it was the craziest thing to me, “Raising kids is not hard. It’s doing all the other things while also trying to raise kids that is what’s hard.”

People think that we can multitask. We think that we can do so many things at once, but we’re still human. It’s hard for us to switch our mindsets back and forth.

So if we’re switching between work and mom and work and mom back and forth, that gets really hard. We get frustrated because it’s like, can you not just wait five seconds and then I’ll get you a Band-Aid and I can finish this email.

But then you think about it and you’re like, this is not your fault. You don’t understand that I’m the one who’s having a problem switching back and forth, and that’s where work can really infiltrate into parenting.

That’s why it’s so healthy when you can really set those boundaries up and say, I need to know where my priorities lie right now.

Manouchka: I feel that’s also why it’s important, at least for me where I am now in that journey, to have the clear delimitation of what is work time and what is family time.

Because when I’m switching back and forth, I’m not doing justice to either one either. That’s difficult when we’re at home and we’re trying to do it all at the same time. It’s not going to be productive, but it’s not going to make me happier either.

Jenna Michael: Right. It’s a recipe for frustration for everyone because your kids are going to feel like you’re in and out. Are you actually with them? Are you not with them? What are we doing?

And then work-wise, you’re just trying to get some tasks done, but you’re not going to be as productive as you would be otherwise.

Manouchka: Could you give us some examples of cases that you were able to help?

Jenna Michael: One of the things that I have found across the board is that most families do not have a clear purpose.

So if you think of your family as a business, and I’m not advocating for treating your family in a cold or distant way, but if you look at the organizational skills and the structure of what a business is, and then you look at your family, it’s probably pretty scrambled, right?

We spend all this time on branding and strategy and long-term plans with businesses, and then we go home and we’re just like, free-for-all, taking it as it comes, living with the chaos.

Something that I have found repeatedly is that families do a lot better when they can structure what it is that they value, identifying a mission statement. So being able to say, this as a family is something that’s really important to us, and even putting it up somewhere that they can have it on display, and then structuring the way that their daily life and their planning fall into those categories.

So being really purposeful in all of those things, whether it’s having a meal plan for the week or taking time with your spouse once a week to be able to go through what are upcoming events.

I’m amazed at the amount of people that do not have cohesive family calendars. They’ll be like, well, I have a calendar on my phone. It’s like, well, how does your husband know what it is, or how do your kids know what’s happening? They’ll say, oh, I didn’t think about that.

So being able to have one central location where you can display even just the week’s events. Our kids don’t have access to our full calendar, but every week we write down on a dry-erase calendar on our fridge what’s happening that week, and I’m amazed at how often they refer to that.

A majority of the work that I’m doing with families is helping them structure their families more like a business with strategy and purpose, rather than just taking it as it comes.

Manouchka: That’s really interesting.

Jenna Michael: It’s important to everybody in the family because that’s the other thing that’s very interesting. Kids have a vested interest in your family as well.

This branches into a whole other topic of chores and household tasks, but more often than not, it’s parents operating the family and kids just kind of being on the side. But when you can incorporate your kids as having a vested interest in the family structure, you’ll find that they take more responsibility for things.

So if you include them in your values discussion, which obviously when you have a toddler or one-year-old is not as easy as when you have somebody who’s older and can talk about it, they actually have really helpful insight. Like, “Well, mom, you know what? We really like to do this.” Or, “Did you know that we eat this food a lot?” And you’re like, I didn’t think about that. That’s really helpful.

So being able to have your kids included too is really helpful.

Manouchka: It reminds me, I read a book, I didn’t like the book as a whole, but I thought that part was really interesting, and it said how kids, even babies, need to feel like they’re useful to the family unit because that ensures their place and survival within the group.

The idea was that as soon as possible, you have to make the child feel like he’s useful to the group. That means valuing him and asking him to participate. That makes sense.

Jenna Michael: Yeah. I think the term is autonomy.

Maria Montessori said it best. She said that a child’s play is work. Children want to be employed. It isn’t until we tell them that a chore is a chore, we display that something is tedious or not fun to do, that then they take on that mentality.

If you can allow them, and you have to remove yourself and expect that it’s not going to be perfect, but if you can allow your kids to participate in those things, like cleaning up the toys, or putting away the dishes, unloading the dishwasher, carrying the laundry, feeding the pets, if they can take autonomy and responsibility in your household, they build on that.

They feel confidence and a sense of purpose and responsibility in your household structure, to the point now where there are things that I don’t have to do in my house because my kids own them. They’re very young, and it’s a very interesting, different dynamic than you would find in a lot of households. But they own that because that’s their thing. That’s what they do and help with.

It’s a fascinating concept.

I’d be curious to know if the book was Hunt, Gather, Parent, because I read a book similar to that. It was fascinating. It talked about parenting from prehistoric ages and how there are certain cultures that still parent the same way as they’ve parented for thousands and thousands of years.

I just find this concept so interesting because what we know is what we know, right? Western industrialized life. But that’s all relatively new in the span of humanity. People have been having kids for all of time and raising them for all of time. A lot of cultures have been doing it the same way, and so they must be doing something correctly.

This book in particular talks about that, and it was very fascinating to me. It brought up the subject of autonomy.

Manouchka: No, it was a different book, and it was a really thick book, like Bible style, on pregnancy and the beginning of having a newborn. I don’t remember why I didn’t like it, but there was something about it where I was like, no, it’s supposed to be a classic, but it’s just not resonating with me.

Anyway, I have a very important question. In a few years when they’re all grown up, what do you wish your kids would say about you?

Jenna Michael: Gosh. I hope that they are able to say that I took the time to know them all individually.

Because every child is different, and so my goal is to be able to know my kids well enough that I know what works and what doesn’t work for them.

My older two girls are sensitive, like really just molten, sweet emotions on the inside. Their hearts are so big and so soft. So if you yell at them, that’s really, really harmful.

My son, on the other hand, you can yell at him and he’s like, yeah, okay, cool. Thank you.

So being able to know how to talk to each of my kids individually, how to make them feel loved in their own special way, what they need as far as their quality time together, what feels really fun to them.

My third child, my daughter Maggie, is so funny. She’s like the class clown in the best way possible. She just has this huge, spunky personality, but she loves to snuggle. She’s such a snuggle bug. I’m not a snuggle bug, that’s really hard for me, but I know that she feels so loved when she can just kind of curl up and be snuggled with.

So it’s really important to me that she feels that love from me.

Hopefully in the future, my kids can say, “Oh yeah, mom knew me and mom was able to help me and meet me where I was. She didn’t try to make me fit into that mold.”

It takes a lot of work and energy and commitment as a parent, but hopefully in the future it pays off.

Manouchka: I love it. I’m asking this to everyone I’ve been interviewing, and it’s so beautiful to see how people are surprised by the question. Usually it gives me goosebumps.

Where can everyone connect with you and find out more about your book and your coaching?

Jenna Michael: I think the best place would be on Instagram. I’ll have all those updates there as my website goes live or as book updates come through.

Manouchka: Perfect. I’ll link that in the show notes.

Thank you so much for being a ray of sunshine and joining me here on the Hey Boss Mama podcast.

Jenna Michael: Thank you for having me. It was wonderful.

Manouchka: Whoa, what an incredible conversation with Jenna.

I loved diving into her approach to simplifying motherhood, making intentional choices, and structuring family life with the same clarity we bring to our businesses.

It was a reminder that just like in entrepreneurship, when we define what truly matters, we can remove the clutter, whether it’s physical, mental, or emotional, and create space for what we value most.

Since recording this episode, a lot has changed in my life as well. My son is now a little older and we’ve hired a childminder two days a week. Honestly, it has been a game changer.

As Jenna and I discussed, having help, whether it’s for your business or just for yourself, is essential. We do not have to do it all alone. Creating space for ourselves does not make us any less of a mom. It actually allows us to show up better, both for our families and our work.

If you found this episode helpful, I’d love to hear what resonated most with you. Come join the Hey Boss Mama Facebook community where we’re having real conversations about balancing business and motherhood.

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Until next time Boss Mama, you’ve got this.