Sales Strategies and Pricing Tactics: A Conversation with Katie Nelson

Welcome to Live With The Pricing Lady.

I'm Janene, your hostess.

This show is all about helping you build a sustainably profitable

business while making an unbelievable impact on your world.

Learn from my 20 years of experience and from my guests as we discuss their pricing

challenges, failures, and successes.

Pricing is a way of being or behaving in your business.

My mission is to help you confidently charge for the value you deliver.

Pricing is either hurting or helping your business.

Let's make sure it's helping you reach your dreams.

In this episode of Live With The Pricing Lady, I sit down with

Katie Nelson from Sales Uprising.

Katie is a sales expert and we're gonna be talking about sales and Pricing.

Sit back, relax, and enjoy the episode.

Hello and welcome to Live With the Pricing Lady.

I am Janene Liston, your hostess.

The show is all about helping you build a more sustainably profitable

business by understanding the tactics of strategies of pricing, and how

to use them in your business today.

I'm super excited to have special guests, Katie Nelson with me.

Hi Katie.

Hi, Janene, super excited to have you here with me today.

Where are you joining us from?

My office the United States, about 40 minutes outside of the capitol.

Katie, what would you describe as your superpower?

My superpower is creating businesses that.

Can sell easily.

Not like exit easily, but like the business itself has

something to sell easily.

Super.

That is a very important skill for every business owner out there to have,

but probably not even business owners.

Just people understand how to sell themselves.

They can probably use the same skills as well, I would guess.

You'd have to ask them, but I would say a resounding yes to that.

Super.

What is one interesting thing most people don't know about you that

you'd like to share with us today?

That's super difficult, Janene, because most people know all things about me.

I don't have a whole lot of hidden things.

I ran away to get married.

I, I called all my people Uhhuh and said, hi, you're not invited.

I'm going to go get married.

Bye.

I, I don't, most people probably don't know that about me unless they're like my

family and it was a while ago, you know?

So interesting.

I'm sure.

Maybe they forgot, but I, I think that's something

that people don't know why.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

And most people wanna have the big, the big party, the big bang and whatever,

but I can, I can appreciate that.

Well, you know, I come from a huge family.

Mm-hmm.

My husband does not.

I live my life really loudly and.

My husband does not.

And so I thought it would be like a nice present for him that

it could just be the two of us.

Yeah.

Just low key.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, that's lovely.

Excellent.

So maybe you can tell us a little bit about your business and what you do and

the value that you bring your clients.

Thank you for asking.

A little bit about me is that I'm a third time business owner, so

sales uprising is my third business.

It will turn nine years old this year.

So I've hit the, you know, five year mark.

Like all of the things.

The last business I grew, I grew to a. $6 million run rate in under three years.

So for those of you that are out there listening, wondering if it can

happen, it can happen can you clarify

what you mean by run rate for those who might not be familiar with it?

Thank you, Janene.

Run rate is like an ongoing, this is how I would explain it as a salesperson.

Mm-hmm.

And what you guys will hear is that I will always say, I don't know, math or

finance, which isn't really true, but I kind of couch everything under sales math.

So a run rate is basically you're going throughout the year Q1, you have

an average of sales that you've made.

If you made that same amount of sales over the rest of the year,

you would, that's your run rate

uhhuh.

Okay.

So it's kind of like a continual projection.

Right.

So by the time I left the company in August, we had an like.

By all rights and means because we had recurring revenue

mm-hmm.

We should hit six mill or more.

Right.

Right.

Okay.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah.

Absolutely.

Okay.

You know, it's funny because when we had our original call with each other,

we were kind of talking about some similarities between us, and I was

typically, well, I'm not a finance guy.

I know

you know the number of times I've reported and worked in finance

over the years and the number of times I've done financial plans.

Right, but, and so, and I don't know where that comes from because the definition of

finance can be wide and varied, and when you own a business, it's the same way.

You know, the reason why I couch it as sales math is because that's the

lens in which I see everything first.

Right, right, right.

Having been boots on the ground salesperson for 30 plus years.

Everything is like profit first, like literally what's the profit on this

deal and then how does it roll up?

It, depending on how you get paid as a salesperson, you may need to

keep your own expenses in check.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And all of these things.

So, which are all functions of a business also.

Right,

right,

right.

So tell us a bit more about what you do with your clients and

the value that you can bring.

So thank you for asking.

You know, the value that I bring to my clients business runs on sales.

A business doesn't exist without a sales function in it.

Mm-hmm.

They're kind of part and parcel, and my clients have a tendency to

care about everything, but they're sales or revenue generation.

Mm-hmm.

They know that it's important, but they don't wanna be salesy.

They don't wanna be pushy.

These are words that I cringe when I say them because I don't identify sales

with those functions or being at all.

The value that I bring to business owners is like owning

that inner salesperson, right?

When you are a solopreneur, specifically, the CEO should be the

number one salesperson in the business.

Mm-hmm.

And if we focus on selling first, everything else is affordable, which I

think is another thing that people miss.

And so I just kind of work with my clients to tweak their understanding of business.

From a foundational perspective.

Mm-hmm.

And then sales wholly.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I'd like to dig into that more.

'cause I have to admit, confess I've struggled with that

relationship of sales, you know?

'cause I always think of this sleazy sort of seventies dude with his

shirt and buttoned down to his.

Satin shirt un buttoned down to his navel.

Lots of gold chains kind of tering up to you at the, the use.

Like, I don't know, right?

I don't

know if we're on video, but if you guys could see my face, I'm like, oh,

eh, eh, that's so gross.

Yes.

So I mean, that's sort of the image that I have of when it, when it comes to sale.

So, you know, why, why is that?

Why, why do we, especially, I think women struggle with that aspect of selling

or that vision of selling as well.

Why?

Why do you think that is?

Well, why

don't I ask you, why is that?

Why, how can you?

Cute as a button, right?

Wildly professional looking woman.

Fantastic makeup, very well dressed.

Why do you think of yourself as a satin shirted, hairy chested?

Oh, I don't

think of myself that way,

dude.

Right?

Like from a sales perspective.

Right.

I think, I think that marketing has done a great job of creating an image

of a used car salesman in our head.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Like just overall.

And I, you know, what I tell people, like right off the bat is that

pushy salespeople still make sales.

Mm-hmm.

They may not have you as a client.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And but they make a living.

Right.

Right.

People buy from them.

Right.

Now there's probably something in their personality that puts them forward a

little bit more, because at the end of the day, a pushy salesperson may also

just be one who's wildly confident.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

About what they do.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So, and because it's all really perspective dependent and you're gonna get

a different perspective for every person.

Right.

I do think that.

A challenge, especially in the beginning and even throughout the entirety of a

business, if A CEO isn't comfortable with their sales voice mm-hmm.

It is a place where they should look to invest.

Mm-hmm.

Because , the success of your business.

Rides on that.

I was thinking about our call earlier.

And what I mean by like the sales will always catch up with

you is that even if you grow a business on referrals only mm-hmm.

So even if it is so much easier for you to talk about what you do and

the value that you bring and the testimonials that your clients have,

and so everybody refers you business.

Mm-hmm.

That's wonderful.

To the point in which your phone stops ringing.

Right , in down times, in times where bandwidth becomes questioned, it's harder

for somebody to pick up a phone and think about anybody other than their own,

like p and l, the profit and loss sheet.

Right.

Like so you will need to know these skills anyway.

Mm-hmm.

If we know them upfront, then we can pass it on and we always have the ability

to afford whatever we need to afford.

Right.

Right.

Versus.

Putting expense out there in the hopes that a sale will come our way.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I'm curious.

So one of the things that I've noticed with a lot of, especially women is they

don't see themselves as a business owner.

I. Yeah, they just see, okay, I'm trying to make some money.

I do this, you know, I do this cool thing, or I make this cool thing, or

I can help people in this way and they just wanna help people, but they don't

have like their business owner hat on or they don't see themselves in that light.

Which I obviously affects their pricing.

I'm guessing it also has a big impact on their ability to sell.

Yeah.

I would say for any woman who owns a business who doesn't understand that

they're a business owner, well, one, I would question what is their goal, right?

Everything is contextual.

, if you're looking to make a hundred K and it's like just fun money for you and

the fam, or it's to pay for a specific vacation or whatever the case is.

Mm-hmm.

Great.

Go do that.

You don't have to think like no harm, no foul.

You don't have to.

It's not this hardcore thing.

If your business is created and you want to run it so that you can

mm-hmm pay your mortgage, pay your rent, pay your car payment, pay

your kids school, like whatever your expenses for the household are.

Mm-hmm.

Then considering yourself a business owner is a priority.

Right, right.

I think when you, when you think of yourself in that

context, you behave differently.

And that's where I see, you know, when.

When clients come to me and they say, oh I don't really care about the money.

To me that's like an indicator that, okay, you, obviously you do and

you should, you must, if you wanna hit you the targets that you have,

especially if they're financial targets.

Right.

Now I lost my train of thought.

Well that's

probably because of my face, right?

Like who?

Why?

Why even be in business if you don't care about the money?

There are multiple charities that would love your time, treasure, and talent.

There are places in your own community that need the help and support.

Mm-hmm.

So why couch it under business?

Like what is, what's the purpose of that business is its own function.

Right.

What I see is that they, they say that because they, on some level,

they feel like they're going to be judged if they are perceived

to be, to care about the money.

I.

Oh, then I would say, is that who you wanna be targeting?

Like Right, and I get it.

So here's the thing.

Mm-hmm.

I get it.

When I first went into this space, mm-hmm.

So I came out of professional services and staffing for small to

mid-size government contractors.

So businesses that had already made between five and $18 million

that were looking to grow to 25, to 50 to a hundred million dollars.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

How business owners of that size talk about business is vastly

different than how smaller business owners talk about business.

And I think that smaller business owners would benefit if they talked about

business, like bigger business owners.

Because at the end of the day, there's another thing that you

said that really caught my ear.

Mm-hmm.

Is.

They really need to care if they wanna hit their targets.

Well, let's start with targets.

If you're a business owner and you don't actually have a goal for revenue

for your business, then what is your goal and is it the right goal?

Right, right.

I think one of the things that we have a tendency to do, especially in the age

of like social media and you know, all of this crazy stuff, is we conflate, we

can take a look at Gary V. Gosh, I, I hope he hears this, or maybe I don't.

We can take a look at Gary V. He has capital enough to create

whatever the heck he wants and say he doesn't care about money.

Right.

And that's true.

That's super true marketing for him.

He doesn't have to care about it.

He can, he can give wine away for free.

Is that your instance, I guess is the question?

If that is not your instance, right.

Why would, would Gary V have ever said that?

When he was starting?

Probably

and looking, I'm pretty sure the man's like he curses a lot, which I won't

do on here, although I totally would.

And he says, you know, I was on the hustle, I was grinding, I was a hundred

percent looking to make cash like.

That's the point of business ownership.

You can make money a gazillion different ways.

Right.

They don't all have to be couched under, I own a business.

Right.

That is in and of itself that isn't going to get you any more

or any less than anyone else.

Mm-hmm.

As a matter of fact, as a business owner, all it's gonna

do is give you yet another job.

So for example you have a coach, a speaker, an author, even you,

my pricing lady friend, right?

So in what you do, what you're an expert in, how what you sell for

your business is one thing, and then there's the whole business.

I think this is where people get.

Confused.

Especially when it's, you know, I'm a solopreneur too.

I have a great team that works for me, but at the end of the day,

I am the one who owns the joint.

Mm-hmm.

So I am a business owner and I'm a sales and business coach.

These are two separate functions, right.

That I as one person have to perform.

So I do think it can get confusing the smaller you are.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I agree.

I. For most solopreneurs, you kind of have to wear a lot of different hats

and do different, different things.

I think oftentimes,

certainly did it myself.

You know, we put our effort oftentimes in the wrong things.

And the right things at the wrong time maybe is a better way to put it.

You know, it couldn't be a combination of both.

But I was always very appreciative.

I was in a coaching program and they're like, 80% of what you do every week

should be selling 80% of what you do.

And we're not talking business cards, we're talking websites.

We're not.

We're not talking networking.

We're not talking

one-on-one, we're not talking, right?

So whoever that like those people are speaking my language.

At the end of the day, the most important thing you can do to keep your business

going and keep you as the business owner or solopreneur happy and healthy is sell.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

The more, and look at it this way, you know, there's so many ways to couch

it so that it could be seen as a hack.

But the more you do it, the more data you get to know what is successful

so that the more you go forward, the more successful you are at it.

If for no other reason, the longer you put it off, like the longer you like,

push it away or say, no, no, no, no.

Or my marketing is gonna make it happen for me, or whatever you're saying.

Mm-hmm.

The f the the less time you have to be successful.

At the end of the day, the majority of solopreneurs are bootstrapped

businesses, meaning we pull from our own bank account mm-hmm.

To make this thing go.

Mm-hmm.

If a business owner is so wildly stressed out about cash, the likelihood

of their business succeeding goes down in direct correlation to that.

That's when it starts to feel pushy, right?

When you need that deal, like, Judy, I need you to buy from me.

You know, like, I need to make my phone payment.

Like it's that pressure.

Yeah.

That I think makes people feel like They would be abnormal to themselves.

Right,

right, right.

So as long as we can make sure that that never happens, and how we can do

that faster is to concentrate on the very thing, like your answer is in

the thing and you're, it's not gonna get easier until you go through it.

No, no.

That's the only way through.

So Katie, I'd like to ask you, when you first started your own business, what

was it like for you setting prices?

for all three of the businesses that I've started mm-hmm.

Pricing was dependent on industry.

Mm-hmm.

So, for example, in my staffing spaces, we already knew what.

Industry standard margins.

And now for those that of you that know, don't know, margin is the

difference between cost and price.

Mm-hmm.

So it's your profit margin is also a, a word for profit.

So we already knew standard profit margins mm-hmm.

To put on top of prices, no problem.

Mm-hmm.

Or the cost of a candidate.

Right.

When I became a coach, that was such an interesting thing.

When I first became a coach, I fell into every single trap.

Every single coach I've ever met has fallen into unless they had

friends who were like, don't do it.

For example.

For example, I charged by the hour.

Mm-hmm.

The appropriate price is 250 bucks, right?

Like, I took my salary, I wanna make my salary, plus I have some extra cost

when it comes to my time and things.

So that seemed about right.

I, because I can sell, it's not like I didn't have a full practice.

I had an absolutely full practice and then I did some sales math I'd never had to do

before, and I times the amount of hours.

In like a day, a week, a month, a year at $250 an hour, and figured out

how many hours I would have to work.

Mm-hmm.

And do all of the other functions of my business.

The non billable

stuff.

Right.

All your non bill, all of your expense stuff.

So any marketing, any business development, any.

Administrative things, paying the company's bills.

You know, every moment that I wasn't delivering, I had another

function, and so that left business development time super, super tiny.

It also left my paycheck and the amount of revenue my business

could ever generate, ever.

Right?

Right to be wildly, wildly small.

And so I'm like, how am I doing so great?

I'm literally looking around to an empty room.

How am I doing so great?

I have this full client roster and I have it so very wrong.

I have owned service-based businesses before, like they're just little

interesting things about owning a business that can catch you.

Mm-hmm.

And what did you do?

Oh, I hired a coach.

I met an amazing woman who no longer does coaching.

She's gone on to do mm-hmm.

Strategy for B Corps, which, if you've never heard of them, I

highly recommend looking into them.

Mm-hmm.

But at that time she was like, oh, well, here, this is where you're, you're wrong.

And it was so simple after that.

Mm-hmm.

It all, I was like, oh my gosh, yes.

You are so right and well, so I created packages.

Right.

I was like, as a solopreneur.

Even if so, think of lawyers, poor lawyers.

The majority of lawyers are also business development people.

Mm-hmm.

The, their companies don't hand them clients, they have to

go out and get their clients.

Mm-hmm.

So while lawyers never think of themselves as salespeople, all they do all day long

is sell the fact that they're lawyers, that is what they should be doing so they

can have a full and healthy practice.

Right.

Right.

If they work in a firm, it's fantastic.

When they bring in clients, potentially they have paralegals

and people to help them with admin.

Mm-hmm.

Someone else is going to bill them.

So there are things as an employee or as a lawyer of a

firm that they don't have to do.

Mm-hmm.

Selling is still one of them, however, so then, and they charge by the hour.

Now you can say it's 500 bucks an hour.

I don't care.

Do the math people, it doesn't matter if you're 500 bucks an hour.

So lawyers go out, put up their single shingle, which is awesome, go

entrepreneurial humans of the world.

Mm-hmm.

And they think they have to build it like they know, knew it in

their industry or in their firm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And unfortunately.

It doesn't pan out for them.

Now you can talk about retainers and retainers as a package, but

ultimately if you look at the function of a retainer, it literally is,

it's time-based.

It's time-based.

Yeah.

It is.

So it's a really big challenge to overcome.

Mm-hmm.

Especially when you're like, but Katie, I'm not a coach, so how would I ever

put together a package of something?

Yeah.

Right.

That's

possible.

You can package a anything.

Yes ma'am.

Like this doesn't have any, one does one thing, doesn't have

anything to do with the other.

It's very frequent that you will see coaches with packages.

You will also hear them say they do one-on-one things.

But literally everything is packed.

What are some

of the, I'm curious, 'cause I, I've heard a few over my, my time.

I'm curious, what sort of reasons have coaches given you that

they can't create packages?

Some of them are valid.

Mm-hmm.

So for example, if you're newer in business, you may just

not have enough to package.

Right.

But you got at least something.

Mm-hmm.

So packaging that something, whether it's that spreadsheet, that assessment that

like fill in the blank with a chunk of time is still in and of itself a package.

Right.

Right, right,

right.

We're not talking about an entire program.

Right.

We're talking about a package of what you've got going on now.

Right.

And so these will change throughout the life cycle of your business,

depending on what you start with and where you're looking to grow.

Right?

Right.

Other reasons are, so for example in the coaching sphere,

having a group program, right?

So one to many versus one-to-one.

Mm-hmm.

Provides lots and lots of time freedom in your business and saying, oh,

but I never want to host a group.

Mm-hmm.

Is also a thing.

Yeah.

Which valid.

If you don't like groups, you don't like groups, if you.

I would challenge you that if you say everything is so specific

for the target market that you help, that's gonna be a challenge.

You know, that's when I hear

quite often they're like, oh, I don't have a fixed process.

I'm like, you don't have to have a fixed process.

In order to make a package out of it you can still, you know, have a

package price, but have the process be adaptable depending on the

specific client and their needs.

Yeah, so here's what I think I heard a lot.

Oh, this is where it gets really good.

So anytime a business owner says, it depends, you are losing money.

It depends.

Why does it depend?

I would challenge anyone who's sitting here going Janene's.

Right.

It does depend.

My process is different.

I would ask you Great.

I totally get that.

I want you to boil it down.

I literally want you to put all of your things in a pot, and I want

you to boil it down like chefs do to create a really yummy sauce.

I want you to think about across the board, regardless of what prospect

you are talking to, what is the same?

In your process.

Mm-hmm.

Because it is the things that are the same, that start to create growth,

sustainability, and ultimately should you choose to go down that path - scalability.

Right, right.

Well, I also think of like, if you have a, a process that you use and

let's say there's six steps in it.

Within that process.

So one client might need more time and emphasis on two, three, and

five and less on one, four and six.

Yeah.

And so by describing that, there's a process there it helps clients

to understand the value better and understand what to expect and,

and how you help them get results.

But it doesn't mean you have to.

Spend the same amount of time or put the same amount of effort into every

step if the client doesn't need it.

What I've also found with a lot of time is that people

say, oh, I don't need step one.

I'm like, well, we touch on it.

If there's nothing to do there, then we know we've checked that

box and we've taken a look on it.

We can move quicker to the next step.

That's fine.

But then we get into the conversation and we realize, wait, actually there's

quite a bit of work that needs to be done.

In step one, you're like step one.

Whereas I had not.

Put that in there, then we would've missed that completely.

So I think that there's, you know, there's something to be said for having

a process like a, a high level process to help you to explain to people, help them

to understand the value, help you to be able to sell it better, price it better.

I was gonna

say, you're talking about a sales process, right?

Mm-hmm.

So ultimately, the reason why you have step one is because you as the

expert of whatever it is, you do know that step one is like the killer.

If you don't have step one down.

Two through six aren't going to come together.

It's not gonna work how often.

So there's this portion of selling that I think people either don't understand

quite appropriately or they miss entirely, and that's this whole educational piece.

Mm-hmm.

Education can be a part of your sales process and most oftentimes

it is depending on the target market that you deal with.

Yes.

And what I mean, I literally just got off a call with a woman who is

looking to go into a new target market.

And so she is going to have to have a ton of calls so that she can understand what's

important to this client, what like the language that this target market uses so

that they, and she needs to know enough about their industry in relation to hers.

To be able to educate them mm-hmm.

On the, probably like the top three places where they're losing cash in this right.

Exchange.

Right.

Right.

So there's a lot.

It's so often new business owners make it all about them.

Mm-hmm.

It's not about you boo.

Like it's not Right.

Like it's not about, it's never about me.

No.

Now, as my company grows, I need to make sure that my company gets what my

company needs so my company can grow.

Right.

But it's still.

About my client, my customer, the value and benefit to them, the

solutions that I provide them and the education that I provide them.

Right,

right.

So I'm curious.

Step one is where you're gonna educate your people back to the step one thing.

Step one is where you say, I totally understand, and let me

ask you a couple of questions.

And those are gonna be the questions where, you know, they're not gonna have

the answers, but they're directly related to step one that you're like, okay.

So these are the things that Step one covers for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

So I think in terms of, you know, feeling that you can't offer packages,

packages are a great tool in selling.

They're a great tool in pricing.

They.

They make it easier or they should make it easier on you.

And I think that using, you're saying that, oh, you can't have

that 'cause you don't have a fixed process is actually doing, you and

your cus clients often a disservice.

Yeah.

100%.

Like how many I, I work a lot with marketing companies.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Every single marketing company that you ever talk to ever will tell you that it's

going to take a minimum, and that is like the bare thinnest margin of a minimum of

90 days to get any kind of understanding as to whether or not the current marketing

strategy you've put forward is working.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And yet, how many marketing companies sell their services by the month?

Yeah.

I've had this conversation recently with quite a few of my own clients because

they wanna have membership programs and then they want it to be just a month.

And I, I don't understand if you're, you're starting the membership

program, you want people to go through some sort of transformation.

What is, is it realistic to think that a month is long enough for

them to get the transformation that they're actually looking for?

Or did what they create was something that they felt really comfortable at?

$97. Per month selling.

Right.

So what they did is they backed into the price that they're comfortable

with and then created something around it instead of actually supporting

the customer with the end result that they're looking to provide.

Right, right, right.

I think it's super, super interesting.

We could talk about this forever, all day.

Janene, I do have another question for you, because I'd like to make sure that

we talk about this connection between.

Selling and pricing.

So I'd like to understand from your perspective, what do you see

as like the key elements or the things that people should really

understand about this connection between the price and the selling?

Okay.

So you and I, when we first had a conversation and had a fantastic

conversation about the concept of charging what you're worth.

Mm-hmm.

And like, what does that even mean?

Like, I am worth a million dollars in my brains, you know?

So the, the concept of charging what you're worth can be a complex

one as can sales and pricing and then their relationship, right?

So what I would say, first and foremost, I think what everybody, I'm going to

give people permission for something.

Exciting if it is needed, and that is you guys give yourself a break.

Like progress, not perfection.

First and foremost, if you are planning on being successful in selling your

solution or your product, or your service, or however you couch it, mm-hmm.

You have to be comfortable first and foremost.

Period.

So if, if what that looks like for you mm-hmm.

Is underpricing your stuff so that you can just get practiced in your sales

voice and saying that this is your price, then do it, but have an end date to it.

And hold.

That's the key.

Yes, yes.

The key is the key and work it, right?

Like you don't get to say, I have a $37 per month offering at infinitum.

Never call anybody about it.

Never try and actually sell anybody that thing.

Like if you are going to do that, understand that that is a

very specific period of time for you and your business growth.

Mm-hmm.

And it ain't, it ain't gonna be around forever because it's not, it's not

for, it's not gonna pay your mortgage.

Mm-hmm.

It's not gonna.

Pay much.

It's right.

It's just there specifically.

So that you have the ability to have the courage so that you can make the calls

and then gain competence in what you were doing in a new skill if selling is new for

you, so that ultimately you are confident.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right now I am.

I am a little backwards.

So for those of you out there who are like, well, Katie, I appreciate the

per permission, but what I really need you to do is, dare me, please tell

me you have people in your community that are like, I, I'm like a dare

me kind of gal. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm right.

So for those of you who need a dare, I'm gonna need, I, I'm daring you

for 30 days to put the heaviest price on what you're offering out there.

Mm-hmm.

And again, it doesn't have to stay that way and be reasonable, right?

So this is within the realm of what you have seen being sold before.

We're looking to set you up for success, not for failure.

So be as bold as you can be.

I dare you.

Be as bold as you can be.

Be go out, make the calls, gather the data, see how much

you sell, and then be like, oh.

I can do

it.

Look at that.

That's amazing.

I mean, I, I'm a big believer in having some tension around your pricing, it

being a bit of a stretch for you, and also a bit of stretch for the client.

I. With that said, when you're starting out, of course maybe the definition

of what that is is different than when you're further down down the line, but

I think that that's really important because if you don't ever step outside

your comfort zone a bit, then you never really see what's possible.

Or the growth,

right?

So, or the growth uncomfortability is where growth happens.

None of us grew anywhere because we were complacent or super comfortable,

right?

Which means that if you wanna own a business, get really.

Comfortable being uncomfortable.

Yeah.

At times it can be a daily thing and then other times you don't see

uncomfortable for months on end.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

If, if you live long enough in your business so from a tension place, you

and I could probably have a whole other podcast on the concept of tension for you

and tension for your client in pricing.

Mm-hmm.

I find that to be a. Like a senior level class mm-hmm.

In pricing as far as concepts go.

It, oh, really?

Like, that's a whole rabbit hole for me.

Yeah.

So thanks for that, Janene.

At the beginning it really is, you know.

Where this concept came from was everybody would come up to me and

say, Katie, I need to work with you just because you love selling so much.

Mm-hmm.

And I just need to be as confident as you when I sell.

And you don't, like, I've been doing this for a really long time, like 35

years I've been selling something.

Mm-hmm.

And that doesn't include like when I was a campfire girl and like

knocked door to door and sold candy or whatever, or baked goods at the,

you know, at any given function.

Mm-hmm.

So.

You know,

was that different for you, Katie?

If, if I remember correctly when we first spoke , when you stepped out into your

own business you found it different.

Oh, selling for yourself as opposed for selling for someone else.

Yes.

You know, when you own your business, you are so close to every piece of it that

when you get a note, it can feel like,

yeah,

like clutcher pearls, people hate me.

Mm-hmm.

And that's not true.

Like feelings are not facts just because Right.

One doesn't have anything to do with the other.

Right.

But I absolutely did feel like I was on a completely different planet.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Even from my other two businesses.

Right.

And I think that's important for people who are listening to understand.

Also, for me, with the pricing, it's much easier to price other people's stuff than

it is, it is my own to a certain extent.

Of course, I, I have the tools and the know-how to be able to, when

I, you know, when I'm find myself falling into some of the, the.

Poor behavior.

Yeah.

Which happens from time to time, especially when I'm

pushed outside my comfort zone.

But I know the tools and the tactics and the strategies I have them there in my

ruck sack of, or backpack of of tools and strategies and say, I know what to do.

Yeah.

And I'm guessing for you it's similar when it comes to selling, you have this toolkit

of knowledge that you can rely on, but it doesn't mean that it's, you know, just

'cause I do pricing that it's super easy for me to always do in my business either

at 100%.

Right.

So this is why coaches I think, have.

Gotten to the level that they've gotten to.

Mm-hmm.

Is because there really is, especially for CEOs, business owners, leaders

of large agencies, there's a place where the rubber meets the road.

Right.

I am amazing at what I do for other people.

And I have a coach, right?

Like I work with a coach because it's never going to end.

Mm-hmm.

It's literally the bleeding edge between the knowing and the doing

and the holding yourself accountable.

And when you hold yourself accountable in a vacuum.

Mm-hmm.

Meaning there is no one else there.

Right.

Everything can get in your way.

Right.

Right.

And it and it all makes sense as to why it exactly happened that way and mm-hmm.

Why it stayed that way.

And you know, and then, and we'll

continue to do so if you don't Yeah.

We'll continue to do so until you decide to

do something different.

Yes.

So yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

This is

alright.

Yes, ma'am.

So I'd like to start wrapping this up.

What's.

One thing you'd like people to remember from our conversation today, what do you

think is most the most important takeaway?

I don't think that we talked about it yet.

I mean, we probably went around it but didn't say it.

Mm-hmm.

There is no easy button for either pricing packaging or selling.

Closest thing to an easy button is setting it.

And going for it and having your date to move on, like that's

the easiest part about it.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

If you need support with that, have somebody else provide you the answer.

Mm-hmm.

And you just be down to say yes.

Right.

Everything else is a learning process.

If pricing is something that you're unfamiliar with, if selling is

something that you're unfamiliar with, these are actual skill sets that your

business requires to be successful.

So you're going to have to learn them sooner or later,

get comfy with it or make enough money to hire someone else to do it for you.

Girl, this is what I'm trying to tell people.

They don't listen to me.

But if you sell, if the only thing you do in your business is sell, you can afford

every other thing for your business.

It's a beau.

It's beautiful.

You get paid, your business gets paid.

You can hire other people.

It's lovely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so, you know what, to that point, can I give them like a little extra?

Sure.

So when we're talking about hiring and you're like, yes,

Katie, I wanna hire a, a business.

I wanna hire a salesperson.

Mm-hmm.

If you do not sell yourself, you cannot provide the answers that your

salesperson will need to be able to sell.

Yeah.

So it will still bite you in the bum if

you don't sell.

You still have to understand the value.

You still have to understand how to, you know, you have to.

Have the information to provide them to be able to do their job, in a sense, right?

A absolutely

think about any training process or hiring process ever, right?

Mm-hmm.

If I, I, if I was not a business owner, I would be a very expensive salesperson,

and so the, when getting a position, I would be asking business owners, right?

So what's your traditional conversion rate, right?

What is the number one reason people buy from you?

Right?

What are the top three reasons they don't buy from you outside of time and money?

Mm-hmm.

Because those aren't real.

No.

Those are just priorities usually.

Yep.

And so if, if a business owner can't answer that for me, why

would I ever take that job?

Yeah.

Boy, we could have a whole nother episode just on priorities too, couldn't we?

Okay.

We're gonna have lots of fun to me.

Not right now.

Okay.

Fair.

Okay.

So what is next for you and your business in terms of growth or strategy?

Where are you headed with things?

So growth, definitely.

You know, right now is a time in the world that feels like it.

Doesn't have opportunity.

And in my experience statistically times of challenge bring wild

opportunity for businesses.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

If you can stay focused on the business and stay outside

of the feeling of a thing.

Mm-hmm.

So right now, you know, I am newly taking on consulting clients, right.

I have larger clients that are now like, Hey Katie, so here's the deal.

This target market, I. May or may not be there anymore.

And I know I have this great stuff, but I have no idea what to do with it.

Go with it.

So they engage with me and we start a sales strategy for

a brand new target market.

So fun.

Mm-hmm.

And it takes all of this.

You know, you have this beautiful business.

Mm-hmm.

You've given so much to your clients.

My guess is other clients need it too.

So let's take a look at everywhere you've been and how you can go

ahead and make some money faster.

So that's, you know, making money faster has always been what I've been about.

Gonna stay, gonna stay about that.

Excellent.

So, Katie, how can people reach you if they're interested to know more?

LinkedIn,

Katie Nelson, the sales catalyst, Uhhuh.

Okay.

I say the sales catalyst 'cause Katie Nelson.

You know, that could be anybody.

There's lots of us I think.

But I'm known as the sales catalyst on

LinkedIn.

I

love it.

Alright, we'll put your contact details in the show notes.

Katie, thank you so much for joining me today.

It's been a real pleasure.

Janene, thanks for having me.

I really appreciate it.

All right everybody, thank you so much for listening today.

It's been great being here with you.

If you have any questions, please reach out to Katie or I we're

happy to get you some answers.

All the best and as always, enjoy pricing everyone.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Live with The Pricing Lady, the podcast.

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com you can download a copy of my Self Assessment Pricing Scorecard.

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Or just simply book a discovery call with me.

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Thanks once again for joining.

Remember, pricing can hurt or help your business.

Let's make sure it's helping you reach your dreams.

See you next time and as always, enjoy pricing.