How to Register to Vote From Abroad

Arielle Tucker (00:00.937)

Every election cycle, thousands, if not millions, of American votes never make it home. Not because people didn't care, but because a form arrived too late, a ballot got lost in the mail, or nobody told them a backup option even existed. Or maybe they just didn't even register to vote, right, Ada? So today I am I am with Ada Shen from Vote From Abroad, who has spent over two decades helping Americans overseas.

Register, request, and actually return a ballot that counts. She is going to walk us through what most US expats get wrong and what to do instead. Ada, thank you so much for joining me today.

Ada Shen (00:39.528)

Thank you so much for having me here today, Ariel.

Arielle Tucker (00:42.303)

Okay, first question. If I'm an American, if I'm a US citizen and I live from abroad, can I vote?

Ada Shen (00:49.838)

Absolutely. So every American abroad has the right to vote in federal elections and this is a federal election year. And every federal election year

Every member of the House is up for re-election. So that means all 435 of those seats, plus one third of the Senate is up for re-election this year, including Florida and Ohio, which have special Senate races. So at minimum, voters abroad are going to have those elections to vote in. Plus, most states will also allow voters to vote in state and local elections, sometimes depending upon their intent to return. But a lot of states will let you vote the

whole ballot no matter what.

Arielle Tucker (01:32.265)

Okay, now walk me through what it actually takes to to become registered. So let's say I have been completely outside of the US system for years and I'd like to register to vote today. What is step one?

Ada Shen (01:47.055)

So the first thing to do is to fill out this form, which is called an FPCA form, okay, that's short for federal postcard application, which is maybe the worst acronym I've ever heard because it doesn't tell you anything about what the form does. But the form actually serves to register you to vote, request an overseas absentee ballot, and to update your voting information if you need to do that. And you can get that form at votefromabroad.org. Votefromabroad.org.

Arielle Tucker (02:14.665)

And if you're watching on video, she's sh she's pointing to votefromabroad.org, which is her backdrop today.

Ada Shen (02:16.654)

And which is which is has a really it's an it's a great site because it's extremely streamlined and it even has some steps in there that will allow you to return your form to your s to your election officials in the state where you vote, by

attaching your signature, like you take a picture of the signature and you attach it, and you don't actually have to print. So for people who don't have a printer, that can be a very useful workaround.

Arielle Tucker (02:51.563)

Wow, okay. That is a bit of a pain, right? You have to like go and like find a a printer if you if you haven't if you don't have a printer.

Ada Shen (02:58.508)

Yeah, mean it's it's it's you know, these days printing can be a little challenging. So yeah, having that available for for many states is is a fun fact.

Arielle Tucker (03:08.457)

At least it's not the IRS and we don't have to fax things because I still have to figure out somehow sometimes how to fax things. So at least it's it's just printing.

Ada Shen (03:14.286)

Well, remarkably, there are still some states where you do have to return it by mail. there's five states where you can return it by fax instead of mailing, and then the remaining states will allow you to email it. But we've got all those nice juicy details up at votefromabroad.org. So we're really set up to answer pretty much any kind of question you might have about voting from abroad.

Arielle Tucker (03:36.161)

Okay, but if I've lived abroad my whole life, maybe I was born abroad and I'm eighteen for the first time and I've never actually lived in a state, where do I start just to register to vote for a federal election?

Ada Shen (03:49.369)

So that's a great question. So the

The right to vote if you have never resided in the United States comes from your U.S. citizen parent, and most states will allow you to vote in their state based on your U.S. citizen parent having last resided in that state. So that is the first place to begin, is to talk to your US citizen parents and figure out where it was that they last resided in the United States. Now, unfortunately, there are 12, 13 states that do not fully enfranchise those never resided voters.

To vote in those states. And that's an issue, an area issue where a lot of overseas American advocacy groups will, you know, try to lobby Congress, try to lobby state legislatures to change those laws. But the majority of states will actually enfranchise those voters. And again, you can get the information you need at votefromabroad.org.

Arielle Tucker (04:43.081)

Okay. And then what I'm I'm gonna run I'm running through all the crazy scenarios that I've heard about or I'm thinking about off the top of my head. What if you grew up in, let's say you grew up in Ohio, you went to university in Massachusetts, and the year before you moved abroad, you lived in California. Where so you spent your most time in in Ohio, then you and then in Massachusetts and then California where you maybe only spent six months. Where

Ada Shen (04:46.882)

Great.

Arielle Tucker (05:12.843)

W how do you know which state to pick?

Ada Shen (05:15.638)

So basically the law says the place where you last resided, right, is where you ha maintain that right to vote from abroad. So it isn't like, you know, it's not a buffet. You don't get to just pick based on where you would like. I'm so sorry, my dog is growling. I need to do something else. Let me just great. Okay. Give me a quick second. Let me just grab her.

Arielle Tucker (05:34.219)

That's fine. Well I'm gonna just make a big mark here. So if we need to start again, we my editor can we're good? Yep, you're fine. You're totally fine.

Ada Shen (06:01.282)

I apologize because of course she was totally calm all day. Except, you know, we begin this. And then it's it's an incredible sixth sense that they have. okay. Yes. So Yeah. Yes, let's do it again.

Arielle Tucker (06:04.479)

I totally get it. I mean you I don't have dogs, but I have kids and honestly I I I see a lot of similarities. okay. I'm gonna st I'm gonna start us again, and then I'll let you start talking as soon as I'm done clapping.

Ada Shen (06:20.908)

So in that scenario, basically your right to vote comes down to where you last resided in the United States. Now, what counts as having resided versus simply having visited can be a little bit subjective, but that simple rule of thumb really does, you know, hold hold hold sway. That is the thing that your election officials will be looking for, and that's where you have the strongest claim in terms of your right to vote. So that place where you last resided.

Arielle Tucker (06:48.897)

To does that mean you need to remember the physical address that you last resided at? Is that what they're looking for?

Ada Shen (06:57.494)

So the information they basically need is they need to know an address, right? And it doesn't matter your US voting address, the address that you use, it doesn't matter if you still live there, still pay rent, mom sold the house, it's a parking lot, none of those things matter. It's just the fact that you used to reside there.

And that is where your claim in terms of your right to vote is going to basically hinge upon. And then the other piece of the other address they need to know is your overseas address. And that is because this law that protects us as overseas voters is based on being overseas. So they need to know that you haven't that you're overseas also. But yeah, it's this is also the kind of thing sometimes people's situations, we've had it happen where we say, hey, are you registered to vote? And they Yeah. And then I then I ask, where are you registered?

And they go, I don't know. And that's where, you know, coming and talking to one of the helpful ho voter help agents at votefromabroad.org can help you kind of figure out what is the best fit for

you know, your circumstances. Most people are very honest. They're not trying to game the system. It's not a buffet. You don't get to just pick wherever wherever you want to vote. You do need to have a legitimate claim to having last revited resided in a place. But you know, sometimes there are, you know, practical realities too about what you consider to be residing versus simply visiting. So we can help you think that through.

Arielle Tucker (08:21.203)

Okay. That's super helpful. Is there anything special that students need to be aware of? for example, if I was born let's say Switzerland and then I go to college in the US and let's say New Hampshire, am I now a a New Hampshire resident or am I still tied back to my parents' old state because I'm just a student and haven't actually established residency?

Ada Shen (08:47.008)

So if you are a US citizen who's born abroad and if you are actually studying in a program in the United States, I would say that is your strongest claim because you are now residing in the United States for the purpose of your education. That can be a student dorm, that's okay. It can even be like it, you know, maybe it's a university address.

Sometimes you have to you can talk to your election election official to see what the best fit is, but that is a legitimate claim to residing there, right? And so that is that is that would be a basis for doing it. Obviously, if you have some sort of state ID like a driver's license, you know, this kind of ID also really helps to establish your right to residency in that state.

Arielle Tucker (09:27.329)

Okay, great. Thank you. So now we have registered to vote. It seems pretty painless at this point. Most of the states it sounds like we're gonna be able to email that back. I what happens next?

Ada Shen (09:38.563)

There's a tip. There's a tip. So there's a tip and that is so what I am finding, what we are seeing the last few years, which is pretty amazing, is that the voter registration rate of students coming abroad is very high. Like kids kids got the memo. They're registered to vote. But the thing they still need to do is they have to register to vote or request a ballot as an overseas voter.

So even if you registered and even if you voted in your last election, you know, in your state or or or in your, you know, you maybe you voted for a mayor's race in New York, you still have to send in this form, the FPCA form, so that you can get your ballot abroad and you can get it by email. So we really encourage every student needs to know they can get their ballot by email.

Do not send your ballot to mom. Do not have her FedEx it to you. Do not have dad write in your ballot for you. Have it emailed. Just go to voteformeabroad.org, tick the box for email online, ballot delivery, and you can get it in your inbox. Ballots actually go out on from September 19th. and so it from the time that you submit and ask for your ballot, you should get it within a few days.

Arielle Tucker (10:50.335)

Wait, so every state has this where they have to email you?

Ada Shen (10:52.916)

Every yes, every state has to email you. This is under UOCA, under the federal law that protects overseas voters. If you ask for a ballot to be received by email or online, they will do it.

Arielle Tucker (11:06.645)

That is amazing. I did not actually know that. I thought I was special because I lived in New York and my ballot just arrived a couple of days ago. And I was like, must be I just live in a state where it's really easy to vote. And I'm just so happy I can print out my my ballot. I and send it in and they even include a printable envelope. I don't know if all states do this. It's this tanky little like origami you know, thing that you have to put together to to send back your your your ballot. But that is so cool. I'm

I had no idea that it was every single state.

Ada Shen (11:35.587)

Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. Well there's there's a lot of folks who don't realize it and we're really trying to encourage people to make sure they get their ballot by email. As some may have been following, there's a lot of concern about USPS being reliable for ballot mail. And you know, I I tend to believe that you know

The majority of ballots will get there, but you probably want to minimize your risk and receive your ballot at least electronically. Some states will require you to mail that back, like New York, but a bunch of states will allow you to email it back or even send it back by fax, which sounds dumb, but wait for it. Fax is really e-fax these days, so you can e-fax it back. Sorry, doggy.

Arielle Tucker (12:14.805)

Okay, awesome. You're good. so now that we have received our our ballot and we're we're filling that out and we're emailing it or e faxing it, whatever we're doing to get that back, are there some dates that we need to be aware of? I will just kind of quickly timestamp this. We are talking today on September seventeenth. This episode is gonna go out at the end of September. What are the dates that we need to be aware of for the upcoming November elections?

Ada Shen (12:44.95)

So right now on September seventeenth, it's an exciting moment because emailed ballots are just going out now to voters abroad. I'm so sorry we're gonna have to clap clap again because she's making a sound. Excuse me.

Arielle Tucker (12:57.429)

Okay, we're gonna taking a pause, Marwan.

Ada Shen (13:38.094)

Absolutely silent all morning, I swear to God. Okay, ready to go.

Arielle Tucker (13:40.705)

It's fine. I'm gonna cla I'm gonna clap again if you're ready to go.

Ada Shen (13:47.553)

Okay, so so the thing to keep in mind at this point in time, we are now September 17th, and the thing that is super exciting is that ballots are going out now.

Under federal law, all ballot everyone who's requested to receive a ballot, especially those who re- ask for it by email, those ballots begin to go out September 19th. That is 45 days before the federal election, which is fantastic because we get our ballots first. So if you asked for it by email, it could be in your email inbox right now as we speak. But by law, they should all be out by September 19th. Now one thing that happens is people forget to check their spam folders.

Or their kind of other mail type folders, advertising, promotional mail, whatever, however you have your email inbox set up. So be sure to look for it there. But if you asked to receive a ballot, you sent in that FPCA form, and you still don't see it on Monday, you should follow up with your election officials to make sure that they received your FPCA form and that they've accepted it and that you will get a ballot. It is no big deal for you to send in a new form. If you let's say for example,

You are a California voter and the California ballot's so big you always want to have it mailed to you and it's always worked in the past. Well, this is the year where you don't want to mail back that ballot. You still want to get it by email. So let's say you want to you've changed your mind. Well, you actually have until I want to say it's October twenty fourth. The state deadlines they vary by state, but basically you still have a long time, you have until October to

change your preference so that you can get that ballot sent to you by email. And there's no this is not double voting. This is not illegal. You know, you're not you're not breaking the law or even bending the rules in any way. The the law is designed like this. So if you want to get your ballot by email, please do it this month. Do it in September is the best and easiest time to do it. And once you get your ballot, make a plan to vote it and return it right away.

Ada Shen (15:50.701)

Now, if you have to return a ballot by postal mail like you do in New York, we are urging that people consider voting and also returning a what's called a federal write-in absentee ballot. It's also known as a backup ballot or a FW, which is not an attractive acronym, also, but there you go, here we are. but this backup ballot actually allows you, it gives you the second bite of the apple, if you will. So you can actually vote legally a second time.

Don't get too excited because they only count it once. But you can vote it and you can cast that ballot. And if for some reason your regular ballot doesn't arrive, they'll count the backup ballot. And if they b No, no, no, they're separate. No.

Arielle Tucker (16:29.233)

so we're not sending two ballots and one envelope and this is like a backup because they can't read your penmanship or something and they if you don't like this one, I've done it over here, like just so we're all sure. It is you are actually sending two you are mailing two separate ballots.

Ada Shen (16:38.248)

Yeah, exactly. No, no. It's

Ada Shen (16:44.212)

Exactly. Imagine it's like a second Hedwig. Like you sent your first ballot by Hedwig and you're sending your second ballot by a second Hedwig. And that's just in case something happens to the first headwig so that, you know, the Harry Potter reference. it's because this is a it's a very it's very clear under federal law that if the regular ballot arrives

Arielle Tucker (16:47.552)

Okay.

Arielle Tucker (16:56.161)

And how do they know not to count it twice?

Ada Shen (17:06.442)

That is the vo vote that counts. But also I I do need to take this moment to say, you know, kudos and huzzah to all of our valiant state election officials back in the United States who really do know their jobs and they really do know all the different weird things that can happen where someone accident usually accidentally votes twice.

you know, maybe they they get handed a provisional ballot, or maybe they don't know what happened to the regular ballot. There's any manner of circumstances where election officials really know they've got the count. They know no one is gonna vote without being a registered voter who has the right to vote. People just showing up, even if you show up on the day and you cast a ballot as Mickey Mouse or you print out your backup ballot and you ca throw your

You know, you cast your ballot as Mickey Mouse ten times, it will count zero times because Mickey Mouse is not a registered voter in your state. It's really that simple. So, you know, people need to have a bit of confidence in the fact that this is what every state does. It is their job to run elections. And if you talk to them, most election officials are pretty happy to talk to you and explain to you what they do and how they do it. And that's true of every state. That is not a partisan question.

Arielle Tucker (18:28.361)

No, and I'm from a very Republican county in New York. Yes, those exist. And I have had I've had qu I've had questions. I have called them. They have been so helpful and so kind and just like really excited that I want to vote. And so it people are genuinely just want you to participate in the process. And this is so important, as you and I know as to Americans living abroad, because I get questions all the time.

Ada Shen (18:33.452)

Yeah, I me too. I'm from a very Republican county. Yeah.

So helpful.

Ada Shen (18:57.517)

Yes.

Arielle Tucker (18:57.685)

Well, what can I do? What can I do? I don't want to pay taxes. I don't I don't like this policy. I don't like that. What can I do? Well, we can vote. That's literally what we can do is we can use our vote our our voice to vote.

Ada Shen (19:02.306)

Yes.

Ada Shen (19:11.896)

I have to say, I've I've lived in countries that are not democratic societies, that don't always have the right to vote, or the the idea of a single person having a say in who gets to lead the country is a very novel idea. And I'm here to say that that is not a version of the United States that I recognize. It's not a thing that we really want. I'm very happy to do my part in the American Project. I think every act of democracy matters. And you know, it comes down to this like make sure you do.

thing. Wherever you are, you know, whatever you think politically, your vote is your voice. So use it.

Arielle Tucker (19:46.784)

Yep. And that's what I've started to do. When people tell me, I don't like this or that, I say, but did you vote? Are you registered to vote? And then if they say no, I'm kinda like, nope. You like you're not participating in society. So at that point, I don't know, give up your US citizenship. I I don't know what you want to do. But like i this is the system that we have. We have to work within the framework. If we all leave the framework, things fall apart.

Ada Shen (19:57.622)

Yeah.

Ada Shen (20:11.104)

Yes, and I think that the you know, the the the main thing though is t for me, w we're working with a lot of different kinds of voters, like people who come out of the woodwork, like I haven't voted since Reagan and you know, thirty years ago or or what have you. And we get a lot of those kinds of folks who walk up to our events and it is so exciting. Like we are so happy to help them vote. It is it is we you know, it is

Arielle Tucker (20:23.681)

Mm.

Ada Shen (20:34.85)

really critical to the heart of the Democratic Project, like people have to participate in it. And it doesn't mean you're always gonna win and it doesn't mean you're always gonna get the policies that you want. But the any other version of events is worse.

Like there's no there's no better system, right? So it's I think it's actually yeah, it's really important, but people have a lot of misunderstandings and they have apprehensions about voting from abroad, so we try to keep it very positive, you know.

Arielle Tucker (21:07.797)

Yeah, absolutely. So when you are voting and maybe you're voting for the first time, you've you've gone through, you've registered, you've received an email, you have sent in your ballot. I mean, do you get a confirmation from someone? Hey, thanks so much for voting this year. How do you know that your your vote actually counted and like was received and counted?

Ada Shen (21:12.578)

Yes.

Ada Shen (21:17.122)

Yes.

Ada Shen (21:27.022)

So every state under because of this federal law UACAVA that protects the right to vote, every state is required to provide an ability for overseas voters to track their ballots. So what is the status of my ballot that's been sent? And a number of states will use a platform like ballot tracks, but there's you know there's a lot of different ways to do it. Now, to be honest, some states

Do better at the ballot tracking than others. So if your state, looking at you, Texas, if your state does not have a great ballot tracker, contact your local election officials. Contact your local election officials. Election officials, by and large, across the country, that is like 10,000 local election officials across the country, are trying to do the best they can to make sure that your vote has been counted or will be counted, and to let you know if there is an issue.

But they're not b just given the sheer volume of it, you may not always get a proactive email. I mean, I definitely do in California b

I definitely do in California, but not every maybe not every voter is going to get that. But if you check the ballot tracker, we actually have when you look up your state on votefromabroad.org, if you scroll down, there's a place that says track my ballot, and that will bring you to the link where you can actually track the status of your ballot once you've submitted it. and if you still need assistance or need help and you don't, you know, if you're shy about picking up the phone and calling your election officials, you can also contact us at the at the help desk at votefromabroad.org.

Arielle Tucker (22:58.113)

Okay, great. So I d I can just put it in normal mail. I don't need to send it registered mail to get this service.

Ada Shen (23:05.31)

So, for you, you are a New York voter, so you must return a ballot by mail. Let me describe a little bit. There's roughly 25, about half the states require that your ballot be returned by postal mail. And by and large, what you wanna do is you do not want to send it any kind of registered mail, because registered mail usually requires tracking.

Right, or requires a signature. And requiring a signature can actually delay the delivery or make it undeliverable, and that's not what you want. So don't send it by don't bother paying for any kind of service that is going to require a signature. That includes any kind of courier mail. Now, some people want to track their mail as it goes.

But the thing is, is that international mail tracking doesn't work all that great on ballots. Oftentimes the tracking stops once it hits the border that of the United States, because the United States actually treats US ballot mail as kind of expedited. So they don't stop to track it and they don't stop to update your international mail tracker.

So we do get some panicked phone calls every year where people are like, you know, or emails where they're like, my god, what happened to my ballot? And we usually say, you know what, wait a couple days, check your ballot tracker, and if they say they've received it, you're good. But you can even call the election official, and I've had, you know, I remember calling LA County on behalf of a voter and they're like, hang on a sec. And they went, ruffle, ruffle, ruffle, ruffle. And they found it. And they were like, Yeah, we have it, you're fine.

Incredible. So really election officials will have a good handle of the of the count on where your ballot is at. The key thing though is this is going to be a crazy election year. Send it in early. As soon as you get your ballot, please vote it and return it right away. The other especially if you have to vote by mail. The other thing I wanted to say for th all those good people who have to return their votes by by mail is again, please do vote that backup ballot.

Ada Shen (25:07.318)

So again, for just the cost of a little bit of postage, you get a second bite of the apple just to make sure that that ballot arrives.

Arielle Tucker (25:14.271)

Okay, great. Those such great tips today. Are there any misconceptions that you hear from people who are maybe nervous about voting?

Ada Shen (25:25.974)

Yes, so one thing is there's so much misinformation and disinformation right now and you can't really blame people because there's just so much swirling in the air. But it is important to kind of reassure folks that states run elections.

States run elections. The federal government is not running the elections. So that's number one. Your state runs elections. And if you want to contact your state and ask them about it, I'm sure they'd be happy to tell you.

Arielle Tucker (25:55.938)

I just want to define this really quick. Your state runs the federal election for your state. Okay.

Ada Shen (26:02.453)

Exactly.

All there is no federal agency that runs that actually administers even the federal elections. Now, this will be a little bit unlike other countries, I think, like France, where I am right now. I don't think it's it's operates like that at all. But yeah, in the United States, it's in the constitution, right? It's separation of powers. Like one of the things that's given to the states is they run the elections. So even federal elections, even though we we can describe through federal legislation a little bit about kind of you know what and how that's done.

The federal government doesn't have a role at all in actually administering those elections, right? That is all done by the states. And like I said, there's a very long history for all every every one of those states in terms of how they administer those elections. So that's number one, is people need to understand that. Number two, people need to understand. We often get this question, like when people are like, I don't really know if I want

vote and if you if you talk to them like for more than a few minutes oftentimes it comes down to this misapprehension about taxes right like maybe they've lived abroad a long time they don't really earn very much they're not really filing and you know the the fact of the matter is is that registering to vote and voting has very little to do with has nothing to do actually with whether or not you owe tax. If you owe taxes

You owe them already. And voting, disenfranchising yourself doesn't improve that situation at all. If you don't owe taxes, because it's the totality of voting, the totality of not voting, excuse me, totality of like all the facts around your person, like where your assets are, if you're earning an income, if you owe income tax, if you should be paying state income tax, different kinds of things. That is what's gonna determine whether or not you owe taxes. And it has nothing to do with

Ada Shen (27:53.079)

voting. The reason why this is often coming up is is and we also have a disclaimer because none of that was voted was was tax advice. I'm not a lawyer and I'm not a tax, I'm not a tax attorney, and I'm certainly not your tax attorney. So I can't give tax advice. So that's what we say is we say, you know, if you have questions about that, please, you know, to ask a tax attorney. But the reality is is that if you don't have any fiscal activity because you've been abroad for 20 years or you've wound down all of your

Assets, mom sold the house, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Like there's nothing to tax. Voting by itself or even registering to vote by itself, regardless of whether or not you intend to return or your return is uncertain, is not gonna make you owe tax by itself. Thank you. Please.

Arielle Tucker (28:38.623)

And I just because I am a tax nerd and I'm a tax expert, so I'm just gonna quickly hop in here and clarify some of the things you're saying. One, you the filing requirements are not determined by voting, right? So that's that's like com it's a completely separate thing. The other the misconception I think you're kind of talking about is if I vote in state elections or local elections, is that going to

Ada Shen (28:52.728)

Hundred percent.

Arielle Tucker (29:07.295)

be the thing that not only do I have a federal filing requirements, do I also have state tax filing requirements. And if you have broken all ties with the state, except you're voting in maybe the the state elections, that probably isn't going to be the final determination about whether you are still tied to that state for state tax purposes. If you're super nervous about it, you can just file in the in you can just vote in the federal

election. So and that's the important thing. That's the that that's the takeaway. You still always have the right to to to vote in elections, even if you are voting from outside of the country. The other thing that I think we need to talk about is and I don't know the answer to this, but maybe we should we I mean we can cut this if if we can't figure it out but does the I does does does the voter registration share your address with the IRS?

Ada Shen (29:37.534)

Correct. Right.

Ada Shen (30:05.931)

No.

Arielle Tucker (30:06.739)

Okay, there we go. So we won't cut that. We'll include that. because I that's something I've always been curious about. Like, you know, y you maybe you are like, I'm only making forty thousand a year. I really don't wanna have to file tax return. I'm not gonna owe anything. I I do meet the filing thresholds, but I wanna vote. Are they am I gonna get a a letter?

Ada Shen (30:25.25)

There there are I do wanna say at this moment, without naming any names, that there are advocacy groups for Americans overseas who are, you know, trying to get laws changed to make this less annoying and difficult for people who don't owe anything. So

Arielle Tucker (30:40.139)

Yeah, yeah.

Ada Shen (30:40.822)

And I really hope that you will also support that work. but yes, when it comes down to whether or not your voter registration is going to the IRS and they're cross-referencing against the fact that you registered a vote, that is not allowed by by law. It's not legally allowed, is my understanding. Again, not a lawyer, but that's my understanding is that it's not legally allowed, that's not happening.

Whether or not there are things that might be illegally happening is a separate question that I can't speak to. But when it comes to state and local, it is again the totality of all the different bits of information around the voter and kind of what their presence is in that state, their residency in that state. Simply being resident for tax purposes is not gonna make you owe any kind of taxes if you don't have any if there's nothing else there. On the state level. On the state level.

Arielle Tucker (31:30.943)

the state level. On the state level. And that's what I that's what I want to highlight because you might owe federal taxes and that's that's a different discussion. But again, they're not sharing information. and so it's it's we're talking about voting, not about your tax situation.

Ada Shen (31:34.08)

Yes.

Ada Shen (31:42.073)

Correct. But I mean, if i if you're making if you're making in your scenario, if you're making forty thousand a year and you've earned that money abroad, you've got the you know, the income exclusion. You know, the foreign income exclusion. Like you don't owe there either. So you just gotta figure out how to update yourself and file.

Arielle Tucker (31:52.939)

Foreign earned income exclusion. Yep.

Arielle Tucker (32:01.099)

Yeah. Okay. Last question before we circle this all together, tie this up in a pretty little bow to go vote. if you're sitting there and you're slightly overwhelmed by our conversation, what is the first step you need to take today?

Ada Shen (32:07.657)

Ha ha ha.

Ada Shen (32:14.316)

Honestly, I know I'm gonna sound like a broken record. Just go to votefromabroad dot org.

And just fill out the form and send it in. Now, state deadlines begin to close in early October, but a lot of those earliest deadlines are voter registration deadlines. So as long as you've been registered to vote in the past, if you voted like in any of the recent presidential elections, you may still have an active voter registration record or you may have an inactive one that can be easily reactivated by just sending in the form at votefromabroad.org. So it's don't don't be deterred.

Don't be scared, don't feel guilty, don't be panicked. Just do the thing. It's for most voters the worst thing that happens if you're like, my gosh, it's October fifteenth. I totally waited. I did sorry. Hold on. My son just came home. Sorry, I'm recording a podcast. Can you just take Miss Cookie for a moment and keep her quiet?

Arielle Tucker (32:54.603)

Just do the thing. Just do the thing.

Ada Shen (33:15.286)

Yes, take her take her and put her in your room. I'll be done in just a few minutes. Okay. Yes.

Arielle Tucker (33:20.321)

Okay, restarting for your last thought.

Ada Shen (33:25.184)

Sorry, what was I saying?

Arielle Tucker (33:27.137)

last question let's just do the whole last question because I think it like we cut out mid sentence. But regarding the the first what are the first steps US expats should take if they're unsure of how to even get started to vote?

Ada Shen (33:32.77)

Yes. Yes. Okay, good.

Ada Shen (33:46.659)

So the I'm gonna sound like a broken record, but honestly, the very first thing they should do is not overthink it and just go to votefromabroad.org. state deadlines do begin to close from the beginning of October, but

A lot of those deadlines are registration deadlines and you may still actually be registered. Like you may not know, you know, because you didn't vote in the last couple of elections, but you may still you may be inactive and actually just sending in the new form will get you reactivated. It could actually be that easy. So don't overthink it, don't panic, don't be anxious, don't feel guilty, just do the thing, send in the form. And even if the worst case scenario is, is that, you know, you maybe missed a deadline, you'll be registered to vote for the next election.

Arielle Tucker (34:29.417)

Absolutely. Absolutely. Ada, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you sharing your time and expertise from Vote From Abroad. Thank you so much for being here with us.

Ada Shen (34:29.814)

And they're all important.

Ada Shen (34:39.544)

Thanks so much for having me. Thank you so much, Ariel.