Peptides: The Longevity Tool Your Doctor Has Never Mentioned ft. Dr. Mary Pines

They're a mainstay in functional medicine in both Europe and North America.

And who should and shouldn't use peptides?

It's a tricky question because in my view, I think the peptides are rising here quickly and I think these things would be everywhere and I think that a lot of people would be using them and I would think that would be actually really good.

The problem is sourcing, which we'll get to.

But as to who can benefit, honestly, I think everybody.

There are certain ones that everybody can benefit from.

In studies, they show a person can take a thousand times the dose and be totally fine.

Your body knows what to do with these things.

So we're really like hormone replacement, replacing something that was lost.

And we can feel into which peptides are appropriate for us or not in the moment.

Hi, I'm Dr. Mary Pines and I'm today's guest on the so frickin Healthy podcast.

I am passionate about transforming the health and lives of midlife women struggling with perimenopause and menopause hormone and metabolic issues through personalized science backed methods that include peptides.

And on today's episode, we talk all about peptides.

Hey, Donna, how you doing today?

Okay, how are you doing today, Megan?

Could you do it again?

Because you sounded not okay.

Ready?

Donna, how you doing today?

I'm all right.

How are you doing today, Megan?

Not any better, but we'll stick with it.

I'm okay.

I'm also a little, I feel a.

Little low energy today.

I'm going to blame it on the allergies.

My body's still struggling a little bit with the allergies.

Um, but I want to keep our intro short this time because we have.

So much to talk about.

We have a lot to talk about.

And we have one of our favorite guests back, back with us today, Dr. Mary Pines.

Hello, Dr. Mary Pines.

How are you today?

Oh, hello.

Oh, you're good.

My favorite too.

This is exciting.

I woke up giddy this morning.

I'm over here on the west coast of Canada, so it's morning for me and I'm bright eyed, bushy tailed and excited to chat with you today.

And I have something for allergy, by the way, which is related to our topic, so.

Look at her.

Okay, baby, gonna be fun.

So we knew we wanted to have you back on just because we love talking to you.

But it's been a, it's been a.

Hot minute since we had you on the podcast probably more than three years ago.

And we were just like, what do we want to talk To Mary about.

And then one of our all time favorite listeners, Gina, she sent us a voicemail.

Now that I have your phone number, I don't just have to send my commands to Donna, I can also send them to you.

Can we please have a guest on.

That talks about peptides.

Peptides other than the GLP1s, which I.

Think everyone a little bit saturated on those and you know, act limited.

But these other peptides we're hearing about on social media, are they all bogus?

Are they something that actually we could.

Use as a lever?

Or are we going to be taking things that are actually bad for our health?

And the unregulated would love to know.

Thanks, Gina.

I love that as soon as she.

Mentioned this, Donna's like, Mary.

That's what we need to talk to Mary about.

So, Mary, I feel like you are in on the peptide scene.

So where would you like to start?

Oh, I am neck deep in the peptide scene.

It is the best.

And I will say that I've been in it for a lot longer than GLP ones have been popular on the scene.

It's probably been 10 years now.

And I have definitely used them for my own benefit greatly.

They have changed my life.

So I'm super glad you reached out and thank you, Gina, for that question.

It's a great one because, oh my God, the amount of brewha on the Internet, as per usual, what we would expect when anything new, quote unquote comes up.

And I would say actually to that point, peptides aren't really that new.

They've been around a long time and we'll get to that in a sec.

But like high level, what the heck is a peptide?

A peptide is just a fancy word for a little tiny baby protein.

And a protein, if you remember from science, is just a bunch of amino acids strung together in a row.

So when you eat your protein, your meat, you take your collagen in your coffee, your body takes those things and breaks them down and then puts them back into these little string of proteins or little baby proteins called peptide.

And in the case of peptides, they are like master signaling molecules in the body.

They're wide reaching, they're a little bit like hormones, but you can think of them as more specific, which is very cool.

Hormones are awesome.

You have to be careful with them because they have what's called pleiotropic effects, effects across the entire body.

However, when it comes to peptide, they would actually consider to be safer because they're like little kind of molecular scissors, little molecular toolkit.

We can target very specific things with.

And that's really cool.

There's ones for immune health.

We touched on allergies a second ago.

We obviously know about the GLP ones very wide reaching benefits.

There's ones for tissue remodeling and healing post surgery or if you have old scar tissue.

There's a million different things we can do with them.

It's very cool.

There's a lot of them.

And actually in Europe and Russia is where they were pioneered.

And they were pioneered in the Cold War by a brilliant scientist who was trying to make so called super soldiers that healed really quickly and he actually was pretty successful.

And the peptide he I would say discovered from human gastric juice that stomach juice has the capacity.

Yeah, I know, farming, right.

He was just trying all these different things and noticed that there was something in the extract of this stuff which we all produced which could make the soldiers heal almost twice as fast.

And this is a peptide called BPC157.

It's one of the most popular ones you'll hear about.

Probably G90 are thinking about that one.

That one so good, so safe, can really help to heal the body quickly.

And there's lots of other different ones.

But basically our bodies produce lots of them when we're young, when we're fit and healthy.

And then like hormones, unfortunately they decline over time.

But we can add them back and the body knows what to do with them.

And they're really for the most part pretty safe.

You just really need to, you need to be aware of a few things if you're using them and do them under the guidance of a care provider.

So I'll leave it at that.

Did I cover?

Yeah, no, that's fine.

Okay.

Right.

Um, how do we, how does one know if they should be taking peptides?

I feel like everyone is saying now almost everybody can benefit from collagen.

And I know we're not going to harp on GLP1s but there has been now additional information coming out besides the weight loss effect, but other things that are beneficial from even GLP1s but in general, like I was telling Donna right before we hit record, these were not on my radar at all in terms of as a longevity tool.

So how do we, how does one know if they should even ask?

What do you.

That's a great question.

I will say they're a mainstay in functional medicine in both Europe and North America.

And who should and shouldn't use peptides.

It's a tricky question because in my view I think the Peptides are rising here quickly.

And if it weren't for the influence of big pharma, who doesn't like peptides unless they can patent them because they're natural.

Right.

You can't patent and make money off a natural molecule.

I think these things would be everywhere, and I think that a lot of people would be using them, and I would think that would be actually really good.

The problem.

The problem is sourcing, which we'll get to.

But as to who can benefit, honestly, I think everybody.

There are certain ones that everybody can benefit from.

BPC157, I believe, is one of those.

And the research shows that it and a few others are, like, so safe.

In studies, they show, like, a person can take a thousand times the dose and be totally fine.

It's really interesting.

Your body knows what to do with these things.

And I think there's many that everybody can benefit from.

And in the longevity space, people like myself are taking a nice little suite of these things cyclically.

Once, twice, three, four times a year.

Some of my favorite longevity experts do.

Every couple of months, they'll cycle in a new peptide or 2 or 3.

And that's my approach as well.

So we're really like hormone replacement, replacing something that was lost.

And we can feel into which peptides are appropriate for us or not in the moment.

You mentioned the DLP ones, I.

And all of the new data that has come out, like, everybody knows that these things were terribly vilified wrongly by the media initially.

And this has to do with errors and dosing causing lots of bad side effects.

And like, studies and Brad showing cancers that really don't have anything to do with the human body and how it works.

And that stuff hasn't really panned out at all.

And now we know, like, in North America, those GLP1s are indicated for cardiovascular disease, disease, for autoimmune disease are coming out, like, for all sorts of things.

And as a longevity tool at a low level, at a microdose level, they're profound.

Tools like blood work will look night and day with microdosing of GLP1, and you'll probably feel a lot better too, which is super interesting asides.

Anything to do with weight loss.

Okay, that's amazing.

I had a couple of questions.

I had a couple of questions.

Now I'm like, I'm overflowing with beautiful information.

One thing that you said which made me curious is you said that the studies show that a person can take up to a thousand times more, still be okay.

So I'm Curious what the body actually does with that influx of peptides, because do they go to waste?

Do they go into a secret little camel storage?

Like, how is that done?

And then you also mentioned autoimmune, so I want you to answer that one, and then we'll talk about the autoimmune, because that's super exciting.

Oh, it is super exciting.

So there is no sort of, like, camel back or these peptides?

No, your body just turns them over.

It just.

Peptides tend to act at the surfaces of cells and float around in the bloodstream.

And they're so small that they circulate to all of the tissues of the body, many of them.

So they come.

They range in, like, from two amino acids or three in length up to 49.

That's a range for peptides.

Most of the therapeutic ones are in the lower end of that range.

And so they're really tiny, and they can go everywhere to resolve issues.

Like, you might not even be aware of that BPC 157, that you take it for knee pain or you have a shoulder surgery or something like this.

Then you notice, ooh, my neck feels better, Ankle feels better.

But you won't be able to store that peptide in your body for later use.

Like, you would take it daily, and then it would be gone.

So you take a thousand times too much, you saturate the kind of receptor for it or its docking site, and your body turns it over and gets rid of it.

It just chews it up and spits it out.

Good.

So we know that we don't want to waste our time and money and effort and take extra, because that's not going to.

It doesn't do any damage, but it doesn't necessarily help in any other way, except for peeing it back out.

And then you're literally flushing your money down the toilet.

Yeah.

And peptides, I don't know.

The last time I took them was a few years ago, and they were stupidly expensive.

I'm hoping the prices adjusted a little bit.

But with.

I don't know.

I'm sure Trump made sure that's not the case.

You said autoimmune.

That's insane.

As soon as you said that it could help autoimmune disease, I assume is what you meant.

Reverse.

My brain went to, of course.

Because it heals the leaky gut.

Am I in the right direction or.

It's just.

It's doing a lot more magic than I even understand in terms of autoimmune.

Yeah, there.

There is definitely more magic.

There so there's one that I believe I remember you, you were taking, that does help to heal the gut.

There's a coup of those, and that's a piece of it.

But there's another one, thymus and alpha one, which is like the poster child for immune rebalancing.

Because what happens over time with age as a natural process of aging, or oftentimes with immune or allergies, to Megan's point, anytime that the immune system suddenly becomes reactive or maybe slowly becomes reactive over time with age, that could be a trauma, that could be overexposure to some allergen or toxin, that could be just development of autoimmune.

The immune system gets out of whack.

So there's this th1, th2 balance.

And I doesn't matter what that means right now, but we basically veer towards an imbalance in those over time or with autoimmune or with a system that is highly reactive, say, with allergies.

And so thymosin alpha 1 is thymic peptide produced by the thymus gland over time, with age, the thymus gland does this thing called involution.

It shrinks, basically.

And this is part of the reason that we become less vital, we're less able to fight diseases of aging, that kind of stuff.

So we can add back in these thymic peptides.

There's a bunch of them, but Thymus, nalph1 is the leader in this rebalancing of the immune system to make it less reactive.

And the cool thing about that is it really the dosing and the protocol.

Dana, to your question about autoimmune versus Megan's question about allergies.

The protocol and dosing would be different.

Different timescale, different dosing, but same peptide to achieve those two ends.

And, yeah, it's pretty cool.

I have people, clients, friends, who I've supported with Imacin Alpha 1 who have had horrendous, like, seasonal allergies, and now they're like, oh, my God, this is a miracle.

I have no more allergies.

Or, like, with autoimmune, we can convince the immune system to, like, calm top, stop freaking out, go back into balance.

That's so cool.

So you mentioned that our body slowly stops producing quite as much of this.

And I know when GLP1s hit the scene, there was a lot of people on social media that were saying, this is how you can boost GLP1 naturally.

Like foods or exercise, whatever.

Some kind of.

You don't have to inject it.

So are there peptides that we could, with lifestyle changes, whether that's sleep, nutrition, movement, stimulate them to create more peptides.

Again, can that work for people who are just like, I really don't want to have to take something forever or I don't have money to pay for it?

Is that possible?

Good question.

To a degree, sometimes, which you want me to answer.

Because just like hormones in your body, just like anything that your body wants to produce when it's at peak capacity, any insult to the body depletes our ability to make that thing, Whether it's a peptide or a hormone or a scaffolding protein or what have you.

I would say if you want to boost how your body functions, how much of any given peptide you can produce, you want to be targeting inflammation, cellular stress, nutrient imbalances, poor sleep.

If someone's not sleeping well, I'm not giving them peptides until they're.

Until they've got their sleep on board, because it's so critical, just like you, Dana.

But basically, if you get your whole system healthier, you'll be producing more peptides.

With aging, production just falls off.

And to some degree, if somebody is really struggling and can't right themselves on their own, with all of the lifestyle pieces all nicely in place, hormones optimized, we're gone, as metabolically healthy as we can, inflammation as low as we can, then I would suggest let's look at peptides.

Yeah, I think there's nuance there, but I do think that anybody over about 45 or 50, even 40, isn't going to have the levels that they were before of a lot of different peptides.

And actually, when GLP1 came out, there was a woman, doctor, Tina Moore, she's a doctor out of California.

But she runs on this interesting theory that we actually have a GLP1 deficiency, many of us, and by adding it back, we're getting all of this rebalancing.

And that deficiency can come from, like years of cyclical dieting.

It can come from stress, inflammation, disease, processes, undereating, over exercising, that kind of stuff.

Those products only help a little tiny amount for many of us because we're maybe beyond an age or there's so much going on in the system to correct that sometimes jumping in with a peptide like GLP1 to replenish, restore can really help.

There is A doctor called Dr. Salas Whelan.

She's amazing, out of New York, she's actually from Mexico, and she studied obesity, GLP1s, and this stuff.

And she's like, GLP1.

Give people back this ability to sense fullness.

Maybe they never had it to begin with.

Like it runs in families.

And these people are, they're eating a perfect diet, they're exercising, they're doing all the things and they still can't lose the weight.

There's something else going on and it's not inflammation, it's not a disease process.

Sometimes genetically people just don't have the nuts and bolts, you know.

So, yeah, there's that development too.

Okay.

I have so many questions I can really relate to.

I can really relate to what you're saying.

For me, it's not necessarily weight struggles.

I know how to manipulate it when I really want to, but it's more just general kind of health issues, gut health and stuff like that, that just bother me.

I'm just ultra sensitive, so I'm going to feel everything just 10 times more.

And so I constantly have conversations with my functional medicine doctor where I'm like, doctor, I'm doing everything right.

I'm doing this and I'm doing this and I'm doing that.

And I'm waking up at 4:30 in the morning with cortisol out of the roof and I'm still dealing with stomach and all the things.

And she's like, yeah, me too.

So I'm like, oh, okay.

I go, my clients all feel amazing, by the way.

She's like, yeah, mine too.

So I don't know.

But my curiosity is about cortisol.

Is there like a magical peptide that most of us need that can help reduce fucking cortisol?

Say yes, please.

Okay, the short answer is no, but like understanding why the cortisol is high could lead to a peptide that can help.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah.

Is it the gut?

Is it an imbalanced immune system?

Is it like chronic inflammation?

Is it your hormones are out of balance and that's not really a peptide problem?

Yeah, I think that getting to the root cause and then figuring out a problem because there's not like cortisol is maybe a general bodily stress response that doesn't, isn't particularly linked to one thing only.

It's.

There could be all these inputs to that pathway.

You know what I'm saying?

Okay, so follow up question.

If someone comes up to you, pretend they're like me and they have a list of things and they're, they're all connected and yet somehow don't seem connected.

The spiel, what do you do then?

What do you do in ter?

Do you have a multi peptide vitamin thing that you can take daily?

Like, how do you tackle many things because often people who do have autoimmune issues or just low immune will have numerous problems.

Right.

It's not usually only I'm losing my hair or only I'm not sleeping well.

It's usually a bunched up shit.

Bunched up shit.

Totally good question.

I would always start with a full symptom assessment number one and two, a full blood work panel.

Ideally that includes hormones, that includes blood, nutrient and mineral balance, includes morning cortisol, inflammation markers, blood immune markers.

So I would try and integrate both things because on either side you only get a partial picture.

Right.

If I ask you about all your symptoms, lots of those symptoms will come from.

Could come from many different places.

And so by having a blood panel, then that can point us in the right direction and then we'll start.

I would start coming with all of the lifestyle pieces first, because you can take all the peptides you want, but if your body isn't healthy enough to support using them, much like you can take hormone replacement therapy, you can take all you want, but if you're inflamed and stressed and not sleeping and all these things, like, they're not going to work very well for you.

Yes, we can, we can add some and see what happens.

Like in the case of autoimmune is that cortisol is high because you're like massively inflamed and that's contributing to you not sleeping well.

That's a different story.

And so then I might say, okay, lifestyle pieces look good, you're eating a good diet, you're hydrated, et cetera, you're moving your body regularly, you kept your stress low.

Let's start you on a peptide and see what happens.

Can we shift that immune balance?

So multifactorial, but starting with symptoms and labs and then seeing.

I, yeah, I think peptides are in that case for someone with chronic issues.

Not the first place I start.

If someone comes to me and they're an optimizer and they've got all the things done, dialed, then great.

Start you on some peptides as appropriate.

Yeah.

Okay, I'm going to get back to our listener question because she specifically asked us about regulation and sourcing of peptides.

And I can see from one of your two blog posts that I could find on peptides that you also talk about sourcing and if so, can we shift into that and where do we get it, how do we start and what's most important to know when you're, when you're diving into this?

Because also it's how we're taking it.

Right.

Cause it's with an injection most of the time.

And that can also be a little freaky.

Totally.

I'll preface this by saying I don't have my finger on the pulse in Europe as much as I do on this side of the water in North America.

But I will say that the regulatory landscape has been a literal shit show.

Like, it is just like shit flying back and forth.

Like RFK Jr has just announced actually on a podcast that they're going to reassess and take peptides off the do not compound list very soon, which is very positive.

Historically, peptides are a gray area and they still are.

And so you know that getting them is tricky.

So we have seen, because of the surge in popularity, lots of sketchy peptide companies popping up all over the Internet wanting to sell us cheap peptides.

And yes, that is a disaster.

Never buy from those companies, please.

Typically, getting peptides is a little bit tricky because you need to work with often a functional medicine provider, ideally someone who has specialist training in peptides, because medical schools generally don't cover this topic.

That specialist training is in addition to.

And then they would order peptides for you through a official compounding pharmacy.

You can't get these from big pharma yet because they're not.

They're, like I said, in this gray area, not approved.

Most of them, Some of them are approved.

Actually.

Thymosin Alpha 1 has been approved and it is approved in Europe.

So you can get it through doctors there.

I can't remember the name of it, but in general, for the average person, member of the public to get them, it's tricky and it costs a lot of money to do through a compounding facility.

There are a lot of clinics that I know functional medicine providers that have said, you know what, screw this.

Because of all of the regulatory theft and because the FDA made them illegal to compound, they have been going quietly.

Other sources that would be considered gray market, but that have production facilities that are with an ISO certification number which guarantees a certain degree of purity, et cetera.

I know a bunch of people, lots of people who are doing that and quietly getting peptides for patients that way, or they are actually getting them manufactured themselves and which is like something that they're really sticking their nook out to do because they know how powerful these things are.

But it's been really tricky for providers and I think that in parts of Europe it's easier because your peptides have been on the scene a lot longer.

As I mentioned, they were pioneered in Russia.

Their standard issue there basically like everybody takes peptide.

From what I'm understanding, what I read online and what I hear from doctors in Europe and then in Eastern Europe too, they're much more popular and easy to get.

I don't have specific sources over there per se that I could offer you and in confidence that they would be like legit.

But I know there's companies that are doing it well that are being used by functional medicine providers over there.

So that's a long winded answer to Tina's question to say it's freaking tough.

Sorry, sister.

Tough.

Yeah.

The landscape's changing, but yeah.

And hopefully it will change more soon.

But what peptides would one start with if they do find the right source and hopefully are working with the right person?

But what if they just want to start and experiment and they have enough money for it?

What should they start with?

Give us three, because I feel like at least two we've already heard about.

Yeah, okay.

This is not medical advice.

I know.

Disclaimer that I will give you the top, top ones that people like myself that I use and in the longevity space are most popular with the sort of biggest bang for your buck, as it were.

BPC157 is one of those because it has such wide ranging positive effects.

It's a tissue healer, it's anti inflammatory, it helps with brain function.

It's.

It helps also with immune balance.

Like it incredible.

You'll read a lot about that one online.

GHK or GHK Copper.

That is the actual sequence of the amino acids.

It's really tiny.

It is all about connective tissue.

So the beauty industry loves it.

Skin, hair, nails, all that stuff.

You'll see it advertised in facial creams and all sorts of products.

Now it's also available injectable and orally, I should say some are available orally.

BPC157 and GHK copper, GHK Cu.

I'm actually taking oral form of both of those right now myself noticing I always notice so much.

So good.

I get so good on these things.

Build muscle faster, recover faster, that kind of stuff.

My skin looks better.

These things help organ function.

GHK also affects, let's say the youthfulness of cells.

So it affects the expression of thousands of genes in your body, which is really cool.

Other popular ones for let's say if you're looking to build muscle, sleep better, maybe shed some fat, just feel more energized, bounce.

Have a little bit better hormone bounce.

There's a combination.

There's these growth Hormone secretagogues or growth hormones, secreting hormones and they act on the growth hormone pathway.

So those are called like Epamorelin, CJC 1295, Tessamorelin.

There's a whole cluster of them and they all impact growth hormone function, but different from how a bodybuilder would take growth hormone, which is like a disaster.

This is actually a much safer and more physiological way to stimulate growth hormone release in a pulsatile way in your body, which is how your body likes growth hormone.

It's not like giving a massive dose of growth hormone in cell.

What these things do is they stimulate the receptor or hormone release so that it's more physiological.

And that like growth hormone is so wide reaching.

It's one of the things that drops off over time with age.

And so that's why I mentioned like a lot of people will feel improved sleep, better energy, better hormone balance.

They'll see improved libido, sometimes muscle gain, collar bones, a little fat loss, that kind of stuff.

Growth pathways.

Awesome.

There's a few others.

That's a few.

There's a bunch more that I would use like in my practice, but those are times I would cycle on and off.

And then the last one is epitalon, which is a pineal gland peptide.

And it can help to regulate like leap and helps with longevity overall according to the Russian studies, which are actually quite amazing.

So it's one of the few that they were seeing, is actually able to lengthen lifespan by between anywhere between two and 10 years when given to older people, which is pretty cool.

Like they did some experiments in people over 60 years old and over these long duration studies and found lifespan extension.

So it, and it's acting not just on melatonin signaling and everything, but downstream of that.

But it acts at like the level of the DNA to change epigenetics around aging, which is really interesting.

That one has.

Yeah, that one is less proven out in like other data sources, less studied but like fascinating.

So Mary, when we talked to you, feels like eons ago you were building some program and you were talking about supporting women in their 40s and beyond.

And we know that you have a program and you're helping people with this and I know from your blog post, and again we're going to link all this material because in your blog post you link other people's materials and I think that's a really good way for people to read on their own, do some of your own research.

But at least you have some starting place and you have this program called better beyond 40.

And you talk about how now with these changes in regulations, you're really excited about using peptides in your program.

And we've talked a little bit about like, where do people start?

So maybe now we're marrying these things together.

So how do you approach this in your program with the people that you help?

Yes, absolutely.

I recently just decided because of the changing landscape and peptides coming back into the light with this recent shift in the FDA status that it legitimizes, then more, it's a little bit safer for me to go ahead and be like, okay, this stuff is really good and feel really supported by that because it is such a gray area.

So I decided to fold peptides into my work with women, perimenopause and menopause women.

So women in their late 30s through early 60s.

And in my program, I it's a 12 week program, can be done anywhere in the world.

And the whole idea is optimizing hormonal and metabolic balance so people can repeat their symptoms, whatever they're struggling with.

It all looks different for everyone and they can lose weight permanently.

All of the conventional stuff that we go through is unsupported by conventional medicine.

And so I bring in a lot of lifestyle natural based support and that's always my angle.

And we look to address the underlying imbalances and inflammation pop up in the body as our hormones, our hormonal landscape changes with time.

So that means metabolic health, the gut, the liver, the thyroid, all of the organ system, the adrenals, the high cortisol, that's a thing, the immune imbalance.

So what I'll do is I'll start with all of the lifestyle medicine pieces.

Often I will introduce the idea of hormone replacement.

Done well.

That's a nuanced conversation and most of it is not done well.

And then I'm going to bring in the peptides to support once we have those foundation pieces in place.

And there's definitely a few for the midlife woman that become really relevant when we can't resolve certain struggles or there has been like a lifelong issue with, with obesity or with autoimmunity or allergies like we talked about before, or pain or inability to exercise because of an injury.

Still, you can bring in peptides to finally resolve those issues.

So I'm pretty excited about it.

It's not the first place we start, but it gets folded into the mix if and as appropriate.

Yeah.

Very cool.

Very.

You're awesome.

You're awesome.

And you really, I mean, you managed to beautifully build this program.

Where you're beautifully unfolding things and tackling things from all directions, which I love.

I think that's so important because people expect just this or just that.

And it's just a beautiful kind of building blocks method of let's worry about the basics first and then let's move on to the next step and then let's move on to the peptides because you need to optimize a few things beforehand.

So, Gina, I hope this answers your frickin question.

And if not, leave us another voice message and let us know what we should ask Mary next because this is definitely not the last time we will be interviewing you, Mary.

You're one of our best and most popular guests.

So we're super happy.

Yeah.

Thanks, Pete.

Appreciate that.

Thanks friends for listening.

I love this.

And we do need to plug your podcast because you just started a podcast called the better Beyond 44 by Dr. Mary Pines.

So I'm sure you can find that that's on your website, which actually I'm telling people now.

I think if you listen to a podcast, you should probably go to the website first because there's usually a lot more information there along with blog posts and other stuff.

But of course you can find it on all the podcast platforms.

And you just had Donna on and.

It was an awesome conversation.

And Donna told me, she told me the other day, she's like, by the way, I was on Mary's podcast, we need to cross reference this.

And I'm like, on.

On our website.

I was like, okay.

And then I like put that away and totally forgot about it.

And then when today, when I went on to open up all your articles, I'm like, let's go see her recent post.

And I'm like, is cheating on me with another podcast?

But it sounds, Yeah, I had to.

Share, I had to share her journey and her wisdom with all the ladies in my program and with the world.

Yeah.

Such a wild, amazing ride and such a wise woman.

Yeah.

Donna's pain gets a lot of listeners on our channel.

People love hearing me in pain.

Oh, you're so positive about the way you speak to the pain and undoing the pain.

And that's something everybody needs to hear.

I had someone in my program reach out to say, oh my God, that was.

That is totally me.

And I really needed to hear that.

So thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was elated.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you for hosting me.

Yeah.

And again, we will have you back because for sure we will have more questions in the future.

All the best.

All the best.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you.

Thanks for the work you're both doing.

It's so important getting this out to the world.

I'm so honored to be on the show, and I look forward to.

Yeah.

Connecting again.

Write us more letters, everybody.

Yes, please.

More questions.

Cool.

Thanks, guys.

Bye.